Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

[AlanC]

How does one tell if they have the 'affected' CFCA engine? My V5 has an engine no. on it but that starts CCH

If you look at the frame under the front of drivers seat, there is a paper label stuck on it stating the build spec of your van. It is mostly in VW code, but the the engine code is easy to spot such as CFCA. I am assuming different model engines have differing codes, as not all vans are affected apparently.

Alan

 

[BerndRos]

When I visited the dealer at Trier Germany they knew straight away and said they had replaced a few engines at their garage. They said it was the bores at fault that means a new base engine is required. If you read the posts and links on here it appears more and more vans are now showing the symptoms as mileage goes over 50000.

What a nightmare.

 

[AlanC]

Do we know what the problem is exactly? It sounds like the rings are sticking and allowing the oil to pass the rings and be burnt. I imagine a strip/rebuild of the pistons would be possible rather than a new engine?

I don't think anyone really knows at the moment.

There is some discussion about the block bores being thin or poorly manufactured. May also be the rings, some or all of them. One guy has discover he has 3 cylinders that have a slightly lower compression pressure than the remaining one, so that may be an indicator.

Apparently the VW erWin online training portal has some detail on it about this issue. Unfortunately I can't get into that.

All up in the air at the moment.

Alan

 

[Californiaman]

Bores can normally be honed or have new liners fitted. What on earth can be going wrong that requires a full new block? I can understand that it is easier when under warranty to replace the whole lump but... really? I know a few pretty handy engine guys... I may have to get into this one in a bit more depth...!

 

[briwy]

As I've said before branded fuel with the additives will help keep engine wear to a minimum. It's not about going faster or using less but about wear over time. As branded fuel is now the same or very close to supermarket price stuff why not use it.

 

[motacyclist]

Where's the engine?

Last time I worked on a VW Transporter it was hidden by a little flap at the back under the tailgate; there were some pulleys and a fan and other interesting things in there ...

Seriously, could someone to suggest a search term for Google because nothing I have typed in has come up with anything. There must be thousands of 2010 - 2011 camper and commercial T5's out there.

 

[calicasas]

What was your battery problem?
Our experience may be able to help you. We suffered a long run of our battery going flat, after many visits to dealers it was finally diagnosed that because it is gone totally flat early in its life, and at that stage it should have been fully charged up, but wasn't, we'd just relied on the engine to recharge it, it never held a full charge after that and finally the battery had to be replaced.

Hi SusiBus,
Thank you for your input on the battery issue, sounds similar to our problem. We were at a campsite in Oberweiss Nr. Bitburg and about to leave when Cali wouldn't start as battery completely dead. Think it may have been my fault as I did leave the ignition and interior lights on by mistake. To make matters worse I had used the internal radio.
The point is that after said incident, I still have instances of a flat battery despite having had my battery checked out by VW in both Germany and on arrival back home in the UK (SMG). Both said that the battery checks came up fine.
I think I have the same problem as you describe. I think that the battery went through a deep cycle discharge from which it's never fully recovered. Had the radio. On for some 10-15 mins recently and this caused the vehicle to faulter again. Looks like I will need to get it replaced. Do you have any recommendations for replacement unit? Thanks. Joe

 

[calicasas]

We now have the oil problem!

The consumption shot up while we were in France. 650mls to 1.5Ltr.

When we got back I took the van to my local garage who I trust (not a VW dealer) and he spent some time pulling off the air intake (very clean), shining a light under the radiator bottle (all clear) and feeling around the exhaust (no oil film to be found). All appeared to be fine.

We decided to top up the oil and include some Force engine cleaner which I ran for 50 miles locally, no motorway or high revs. We then drained the oil and replaced it with 5W40 and a new filter.

This week I topped the oil up with 1.5 ltrs again having done 866 miles. An improvement but still poor.

In mitigation, my van has done 85k miles, very high for a 5 year old Cali I know, but it was a hire van in a former life. I am certain the company looked after it, but who knows what happened when it was wandering around Europe when on hire.

By the way the engine is a CFCA 180 DSG, Pendle mapped to 209BHP, but I do not race or rally it, and have spent many an hour recently cruising at 40 or 50 mph on the M3...!

There is a face book page about this issue you may like to look at.

VW T5.1 excessive oil use for CFCA engines.

Alan

Oh dear, I certainly have the CFCA engine type, so if it's engine wear then it's just a matter of time? sounds like all we can do is help prolong the inevitable...

 

[sidepod]

What could be happening is the block is flexing. It could be just too flimsy for the turbo boost applied and the piston ring seal is ineffective.

If anyone is familiar with Dave Vizard then you may know of his experiments with block flexing and turbo boost.

If it is the block that's at fault then this would explain why a replacement engine is required as opposed to a rebore/hone

Just for ref. Vizard took a ford engine block and filled the water jacket with concrete to stiffen it. In the short time it ran before overheating he was able to to run huge boost levels and extract massive power per litre. The experiment proving block flexibility is a limitation.

S.

 

[marshian70]

I found this on another forum in relation to the VW 2.0 diesel engines which supports other research I have made:

Then the 2.0 cr 2010>
CAAA 84bhp
CAAB 102bhp
CAAC 140bhp
CCHA 140bhp
CFCA 180bhp

So it seems that the CFCA engines which are the subject of the reported problems are just the 180bhp versions?
I can't find any comments on the net regarding similar issues with the CCHA etc.

 

[marshian70]

I found this on another forum in relation to the VW 2.0 diesel engines which supports other research I have made:
Then the 2.0 cr 2010>
CAAA 84bhp
CAAB 102bhp
CAAC 140bhp
CCHA 140bhp
CFCA 180bhp
So it seems that the CFCA engines which are the subject of the reported problems are just the 180bhp versions?
I can't find any comments on the net regarding similar issues with the CCHA etc.

 

[jts46]

All details of engine, gearbox, etc, etc is in the booklet that came with the vehicle, near the front of the booklet/ instruction manual.

John

 

[fred]

I found this on another forum in relation to the VW 2.0 diesel engines which supports other research I have made:
Then the 2.0 cr 2010>
CAAA 84bhp
CAAB 102bhp
CAAC 140bhp
CCHA 140bhp
CFCA 180bhp
So it seems that the CFCA engines which are the subject of the reported problems are just the 180bhp versions?
I can't find any comments on the net regarding similar issues with the CCHA etc.

this appears to be correct, the CFCA is the 180 BiTurbo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines

 

[WelshGas]

If you look at the frame under the front of drivers seat, there is a paper label stuck on it stating the build spec of your van. It is mostly in VW code, but the the engine code is easy to spot such as CFCA. I am assuming different model engines have differing codes, as not all vans are affected apparently.

Alan

The problem is the same CFCA type engine is fitted from 2010 - 2015. But a change in manufacturing was made post 2011, but the engine type was unchanged.

 

[snowy55]

Lets hope the extra power in the T6 doesn't send it over the edge again!

 

[WelshGas]

Who knows. New engine type, new problems.

 

[fred]

can anyone cite a reference for the "change in manufacturing" post 2011 for the CFCA engine?

 

[WelshGas]

TPI 2039830/5 - CFCA engine oil consumption too high

And from another forum.

Apparently the whole CFCA issues are only effecting some but not all engines. Based on what I have seen in the field so far, it seems that driving style has a lot to do with it. My own CFCA for example has absolutely no issues - and so don't most of them out there. It looks very much like only those running their BiTDIs very hard are having trouble (yours with a modification is a good candidate for that assumption). That theory is covered by feedback from a tuner buddy, for example the new software is now limiting top speed and other factors based on water/oil temps more than before.

So new software etc: limits top speed etc:

Obviously, remapping or over raving in low gears on a manual gear box may not be helpful.

 

[Victor]

Sorry if a dumb question but I don't understand all the technical stuff above, basically I have a July 2010 4Motion with a 180 engine with 48,200 miles on the clock.

In layman's terms am I affected by this? What can I do? I was looking to sell next spring

 

[WelshGas]

1. Only some engines are affected.
2. The affected engines tend to have been over revved and abused.
3. The software was updated to stop this, to control the revs based on road speed, engine temperature and oil temperature etc.
4. More common on manual gearboxes as it is easier to over rev the engine .
5. It does not appear to be a widespread problem.

As to whether your vehicle is affected, or will be affected, you will just have to wait and see, but probably not. However I could be wrong.

 

[BerndRos]

Re point 2 of WelshGas post above, mine is a DSG and I have NEVER had it out of D apart from the occasional shift into S when taking of from junctions and roundabouts. Also vary rarely gone above 80MPG when abroad. I also recall mine had a couple of software upgrades over the years when at the garage for other reasons. So I could not have over revved it.

Am waiting for VWCS to get back to me.....re next step forward.

 

[GrannyJen]

I find this most disturbing.

I can forgive VW for their appalling customer interface via both the commercial dealer network and VWCS.

I can forgive VW for it's arrogance and deceit over vehicle emissions.

I can forgive VW for the shambolic introduction of the T6 and its outrageously incompetent presentation of vehicle and option combinations.

I can forgive VW for a lot because at the end of the day the brand stands for a quality, resilient and reliable engineering product.

If the engineering proves to be less than reliably solid then all the other defects of the VAG customer relations package become stark.

 

[marshian70]

I'm no expert but surely all a software update does is mask what is inherently still an issue with ALL CFCA engines?
If the software update works then why are VW not offering to all those who might possibly be affected now or in future?

 

[fred]

Sorry @WelshGas I'm not buying that. It seems only you that is saying that the problem isn't really a big problem, it only affects some engines anyway, and only those where the owner has thrashed it, and regardless it can be fixed by an engine limiter patch to the ECU.

If you can't provide a legitimate citation for that (rather than supposition and theory from vwT4) I don't think it's helpful to disseminate what is potentially expensive misinformation. From my point of view you shouldn't say "a change in manufacturing" when you mean just a software patch.

If that (third-hand) theory is right, VW would have patched everyone's ECUs on the next service and prevented this.
@BerndRos says he's had his engine patched at service, never over-revs the engine (he has a DSG) and his engine has developed the issue at 50,000 miles.
@AlanC has a DSG, a remap and his engine is failing at 85,000 miles.
@kazza has a DSG and his engine is failing, we don't know his mileage or even his engine model.

(I'm only pointing out DSG because you say that it's more common on manual boxes as it's harder to over rev an engine with a DSG box, but we don't have any examples of that). Also I don't think these are isolated issues, but Cali drivers do less mileage so we'll generally hit the problem later rather than sooner for the average workaday van on vwt4 forum.

In addition we have two very plausible working theories:

@sidepod suggested engine block flex causing piston wear
@moysvdub1 suggests DPF regen dumping fuel back in to the oil sump and thinning the oil out.

Both seem plausible, neither seem to be able to be fixed simply by an ECU remap or would be limited to the CFCA (180).

Obviously it's a good idea not to cane the living sh1t out of your van. 5,000 mile oil and filter changes seem to be a good preventative measure until more is known. But these engines should be good for 250,000 miles for everyone.

 

[Fryers!]

Not very happy reading this as we have a 180 on 61 plate, we have just clocked up 50k miles and have a four month tour of Europe planned next year.