T6 suspension upgrade

[WillSS]

If lowering isn't your thing then I'll throw this into the pot. Having spent some time on the German Cali forums I found much discussion into the ocean/beach rear sag & soft rear end (especially when loaded for a trip) for both T5/T6 variants.
This led into pages of analysis into the crazy array of factory VW spring options applicable to all the various van types/chasis/loadings and the conclusion is to fit the 4xgrey set in the rear end, (vw partno in pic below). This not only (optically) levels things up but gives the van a taughter ride, with an improved spring travel to take out the bumps. It definitely reads that everyone who made this change was pleased with the results.
4xgrey equates to the slightly longer and heavier duty rear springs as fitted to the T5 T32 workhorse model.
Practically new sets can be found on eBay for small monies as plenty of folk swap them out for lowered springs. (The 3xgrey are also suitable and fitted to T32 as well).

You've already got the uprated rear ARB so just doing these springs may be enough of an improvement on their own. The next benefit would be to upgrade the rear shocks. Bilstein B6s are probably the top choice but a more affordable alternative might be the SACHS 'super touring' rear shocks (part no. 314725), these can be bought for under £100 for the pair and are again designed to work with the heavy duty suspension. For what it's worth the SACHS super touring shocks for the T4 are pretty much considered as good as, if not better, than the Bilsteins.

As the only change here is at the rear end it's all straightforward labour wise (either DIY or shop) though the 4motion is more hassle with the driveshafts not allowing the hubs to drop low enough to release the springs.

I have a new beach on order and a set ot T32 springs blocking up our hallway so will report back findings sometime down the line when it makes it out of Hanover.
Cheers, Will

Ok so here's a very belated reply to myself having FINALLY moved the set of VW T5 T32 rear springs from my hallway into the rear end of our T6 Beach.

Apologies for the length of this post but my findings may be of help to others to who are looking for an improvement in their Cali's handling. I've pulled so much useful info out of this forum so hopefully here's a little back!

To compliment these beefier springs I've also replaced the standard rear shocks with a pair of SACHs HD shocks, again more suitable for a T32 model. For those who haven't studied up on the various Transporter variants by weight carrying capacity(!), the T32 model of the T5/6 is the heaviest permitted load carrying version hence comes with the uprated suspension to cope.

So the purpose of all this is to try and improve the Cali handling whilst retaining/improving the ground clearance and not going down the lowered path of VW lowering springs / Bilstein coilovers or the expense of air suspension.
This also turns out to be a very inexpensive solution and has the aesthetic benefit (in my opinion) of removing the visual rear end sag, especially when loaded.

If you read my original post further up you'll realise swapping these springs was gleaned from the German Cali forums. I've just added in the shocks for good measure as its my belief most of the Cali's handling 'features' are down to the weak underdamped standard shocks that can't cope with the weight (exactly the same as those fitted to the bog standard T28 panel van but bear in mind the Cali is carrying most of its permitted weight all of the time!)

To hopefully avoid any reply negativity may I add this is genuinely not written as a direct criticism of the Cali handling. Do any search on here into the Cali's road manners and it's pretty obvious this is a very subjective matter. It's quite apparent many folks are more than happy with the handling which is of course great for them whereas others can find it a little lacking ('crashy', 'wallowy' with too much body roll).
It's a very personal thing, we all have different driving styles and expectations. Some are comparing to a large coachbuilt and others their BMW M5. This posting is clearly just for those that aren't so happy, go on their travels loaded to the max, or maybe have to tow from time to time.

So here follows a little write-up re the difference this has made to our Cali.
Firstly I need to qualify a few things for the sake of comparison to other owners.

We have a T6 beach which came from the factory with the uprated anti roll bars front and back.
We used to own a 2012 SE which I subsequently installed the larger 28mm rear ARB.
Due to the lesser weight, the Beach was always going to handle 'better' than the SE but it still rolled uncomfortably into the bends, all a bit bouncy over lumpy roads and (in my opinion) really wasn't a pleasant driving experience when off the major roads.

If one of your aims is to reduce the body roll then I would first recommend fitting the uprated rear ARB if you don't have it. It's a £112 part and easy DIY instal/local garage. I have a separate 'how to' posting on this somewhere on here with part nos, etc.

This T32 spring/ SACHs shock upgrade is applicable to all variants of the Cali whether SE,Beach,Ocean,4 motion,etc.

COSTS:
- The T32 springs (identified with 4 grey paint marks) cost me £25 from eBay practically new. (The owner, T5 (t32) 4motion had lowered his van from new so hence these were up for grabs). Plenty come up or can probably be purchased direct from Vansstyle or Merseyspeed. They can vary in price from free to £50 odd.
- The Sachs HD shocks (model 314725); £90 for the pair delivered from bestpartstore.co.uk

An alternative heavy duty shock would be the Bilstein B6 but you will pay considerably more for not necessarily a better shock. (The VW T4 SACHS HD proved just as good as the Bilstein B6s)

Simple instal, jack up rear, undo top and bottom shock bolts, the hub now drops allowing the removal of the spring. A little more agg. for the 4motion as the driveshafts don't low the hub to drop so far.

RESULTS:
- Rear lifted a good 3cm
- A firmer considerably less 'bouncy' ride with way less roll but no noticeable detriment (harshness) to the ride quality over bumps.
- Drives much more 'car' like round the twisties with a more planted feel, feels oddly lighter.

CONCLUSION:
For my needs this is a no brainer, way better than I'd hoped with the back lane driving experience now a pleasure. There is the matching SACHs HD front shocks which was to be my next course of action (keeping original springs) but honestly it drives so much better now I'm not sure I can be bothered to go further given the greater effort involved swapping out shocks up front plus tracking costs, etc.

There is another member on here I've been in contact with who is about to replicate this to his T5 SE including the rear ARB upgrade. I'm sure he'll post up his experiences and i obviously hope he finds a similar improvement albeit with the extra weight of the SE.
No concerns with your warranty either, in other climes these can be spec'd for the California (see last photo). PR-1BB refers to 'Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design'. Describes the UK roads quite well
though obviously your warranty won't cover any failure in these replaced parts!

This solution is in effect a milder version of the Pedders rear spring/shock conversion which I gather can give too much rear lift and rides too harshly.

APologies again for verbose post! Hopefully of interest to some. Happy days... Will.

Before...



HD SACHs replacing standard Monroes...



3xpink to 4xgrey...



After...



After with hand appearance...



Cali spring options...

 

[Stuart]

Thanks very much for posting this! Do you happen to know what your ride heights (hub centre to top of arch) are now, and perhaps even what they were before?

 

[Ciki62]

As I wrote before. I replaced standard suspension with seikel desert with monroe shock absorbers. http://www.seikel.de/shop/hoeherlegung-desert-fuer-4motion/?lang=eh
Front springs are dual. Much better handling even on regular roads. Btw. I also have heavy duty roll bars. I Highly recommend this suspension. Image with total empty van. Loaded goes down.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[WillSS]

Thanks very much for posting this! Do you happen to know what your ride heights (hub centre to top of arch) are now, and perhaps even what they were before?

I'll have a measure in the morning.

Re the Seikel post, what I have suggested here is in no way comparative to the awesome Seikel modification, neither height gain, purpose or cost! This is just a very affordable solution to make the Cali drive better in its regular road terrain.

 

[WelshGas]

So a fully loaded California sits lower at the Rear. Ok.

But how about measuring and photographing a Fully loaded California, prepared for the road with at least the Driver on board if not a Driver and Passenger.

Mine sits level, a 4Motion, when fully loaded with a Driver on board.

 

[WillSS]

So a fully loaded California sits lower at the Rear. Ok.

But how about measuring and photographing a Fully loaded California, prepared for the road with at least the Driver on board if not a Driver and Passenger.

Mine sits level, a 4Motion, when fully loaded with a Driver on board.

Erm, my beach is empty and sits lower at the back whether or not we have 2 up front.
It goes without saying you are in the 'happy' brigade so why add your comment?
As I tried to allude to in my post, this is just for those folks not so happy.

 

[Stuart]

I did some investigation in to this and there are T6 Beaches with different springs ... so some have a saggy arse and some don't. VW says both are within their tolerances.

 

[Stuart]

Link if you're interested. https://www.t6forum.com/threads/ride-height-survey.2301/page-3

 

[WelshGas]

Erm, my beach is empty and sits lower at the back whether or not we have 2 up front.
It goes without saying you are in the 'happy' brigade so why add your comment?
As I tried to allude to in my post, this is just for those folks not so happy.

I made my comment because 150 Kgms, Passenger and Driver, in the front could level out the ride height. That's what happens on my T5.1 4Motion.
So compare like with like. Comparisons should be made in Driving mode, with at least a Driver not Parking mode with no driver.

 

[Bellcrew]

I made my comment because 150 Kgms, Passenger and Driver, in the front could level out the ride height. That's what happens on my T5.1 4Motion.
So compare like with like. Comparisons should be made in Driving mode, with at least a Driver not Parking mode with no driver.

It is interesting to see how none expert owners second guess professional suspension engineers and mix and match components to try to obtain performance car handling. Presumably their insurance companies are happy to maintain cover regardless of these mods. The only van with independent rear suspension gives imho a decent balance of ride and handling on its standard set up. I fully understand the urge to customise and enjoy the arguments, keep up the experiments boys.

 

[Loz]

Ours, fully loaded on Seikel HD.

Was also fully 4 wheel aligned to Seikel spec afterwards.

 

[WillSS]

It is interesting to see how none expert owners second guess professional suspension engineers and mix and match components to try to obtain performance car handling. Presumably their insurance companies are happy to maintain cover regardless of these mods. The only van with independent rear suspension gives imho a decent balance of ride and handling on its standard set up. I fully understand the urge to customise and enjoy the arguments, keep up the experiments boys.

Thanks James, that's really insightful, you sound such a fun guy.
I'm overly chuffed you are in the 'happy' camp so really, why the need to post here with such a pointless and frankly patronising reply?

I wonder whether Loz would be enjoying his new ride if Peter Seikel had taken your advice?

Have another read of my post and you may notice I have fitted OE shocks/springs, the same as you would get if you'd factory spec'd 'suspension for rough roads' (not that you can in the UK). It's been tried and tested by a large number of our German friends over in the Caliboard.de forum with the same positive results. We also have a forum member in our midst (well he actually resides in Chilie) who had this same spring/shock setup spec'd from the factory so I'm struggling to understand any insurance issues.

Have you ever thought that the reason some manufacturers OE suspension can be 'limited' is simply down to cost winning over function?
As an example, please enlighten me as to why every single Cali produced doesn't come fitted with the uprated ARBs as standard given its such a top heavy beast when they clearly help to limit the roll and significantly improve safety (I hope you never get into a situation where you are forced to take swift evasive steering action at motorway speeds, truly terrifying)
The uprated ARBs come with zero detriment to the ride over standard, the only possible exception I can think when not to have them could be on Loz's Seikel van if he starts going extreme off-road and wants more 'independent' wheel tracking.
So just maybe the reason they don't come standard is because VW can charge an extra £250 odd at point of sale for this 'upgrade'?

It doesn't take an awful lot of suspension knowledge to understand a spring works to its potential when it's full travel is utilised throughout the likely terrain it experiences working in unison with appropriate compression and rebound damping. If you have too soft a spring then a big lump of this travel has already been sacrificed just from the initial static loading (weight of the van). Lose that initial spring travel, add in some underdamped shocks comparative to the load and you lose the smooth compliance over 'minor' undulations, hence the 'crashy' feel.
It would be lovely if the VW 'professional suspension engineers' could offer alternative setup solutions specific to a customers needs (happily at a cost, post sale) given the vast array of alternative suspension options they have designed for the California, but they DONT.
Once you receive your new Cali with the bog standard T28 spring of their choosing you're done.
Ask any dealer for suggestions on how to improve the ride or wallow and other than their Eibach lowering springs theres nothing. 'That's just the way they drive'
Not so great if you don't want to lose clearance, hence its left to 'others' to do their work, best 'guessing' combinations from their parts list. Just take a look a this link to see the crazy array of spring/shock options for a 2016 California.

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_singl...511/subcategory/511002/part_id/3705862/lang/e

As for me, you are perfectly correct, I am no expert. In no stretch of my imagination would I consider I'm knowledgeable in van suspension. But I do feel capable of knowing when suspension is poor and IMO the Cali is poor, more so my old SE than the Beach. When my brain was less developed in my younger days I did a few years racing motorbikes with BEMSEE constantly altering suspension setup, spring rates, damping to suit various conditions and as such had a very instant first hand experience of the impact of such changes. I'm hoping this has given me just a little understanding of how things work but still leaves me and others with little option but to 'second guess' the engineers.

Re the visual 'sag' issue Stuart, I have seen the thread on the T6 forum. I've been a bit of a lurker over there for quite a while and I suspect, with their greater tolerance for owners questioning things, it's a place I should spend more time in! Anyhow the rear sag wasn't my driver here, albeit a bonus to get this aesthetic improvement (IMO) with my sole aim of swapping out the rear suspension being to improve the wallowy handling (again in my opinion).

And relax... beer in hand and a bit of Glasto on the box.

Over and out. (Just for you Max-Felix)

 

[WillSS]

'Second guess' Cali...

 

[sidepod]

Wow. We've not had a punch up for a while.

 

[WelshGas]

 

[Gavrobb]

Great info Wills - been looking at options for ages for our sagging T6 4M rear. Are we all sure that NONE of the Cali's came with T32 springs?? I'll get straight on to this mod to pick up the rear just dont want to go to the trouble to find they could be on there already and still sagging

 

[Del Boy]

Finally got round all my suspension issues, fitted vw t32 sprigs all round Bilstine B8 front struts and B6 rear shocks . I had heavy duty anti roll bars since new . The overall height of the van is basically the same , handling is very good now loaded or not . No more violent body roll on tight bends or roundabouts.
Just returned from a trip to the south of Italy , varied roads and conditions ! Made use of the 4 motion on many occasions. Overall ride and handling very good.
Van behaved very well, my wife isn't car sick in it any more

 

[Jay20cali]

Hi reserves , sounds like your lowering springs have given the van a new lease of life . I take it your eibach springs are what VW offer as a lowering option and was that the price fitted ? Thanks for the feedback

The lowered springs are what's fitted to the factory sportline from the factory, pre 16plate so there able to carry the extra weight no problem

 

[WillSS]

Great info Wills - been looking at options for ages for our sagging T6 4M rear. Are we all sure that NONE of the Cali's came with T32 springs?? I'll get straight on to this mod to pick up the rear just dont want to go to the trouble to find they could be on there already and still sagging

If you've owned your T6 since new you won't have the T32 springs (3xgrey or 4xgrey) given they are fitted as part of the 1BB option which unfortunately isn't offered for the UK spec Cali's at point of order.
To confirm what you've got best crawl under your back wheel with a rag and see if you can find the coloured paint marks on your springs (remove your wheel if no luck) or find the production code sticker (PR-codes) under the front seat and find your match on the list below.

PRCode: 1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design

Have done about 4K miles on ours now, albeit only the rear end, empty and fully loaded and can only vouch for what @Del Boy has said, huge improvement.

 

[Gavrobb]

The overall height of the van is basically the same , handling is very good now loaded or not

Delboy - you never found that it picked up the sag on the rear of the 4M? I'm not a hard driver (having come from pick ups!) so its not so much a performance issue but more as Willss has shown which is to get that back up in the air and level out the van. Right now its a sad sight - looks like an overloaded van, negative camber also bothers me for tire wear. Just seeing Willss before and after is exactly what I was looking to do. (I also watched the thread on the Pedders system and thought the over lift looked just as odd...)

Thanks for the info above though guys - really helpful. I'm confident enough now to get the ball rolling on ordering some springs.Winter tire time is fast approaching here so a good incentive to do the lot..

 

[Gavrobb]

Does anybody have the part number for the 4x Grey springs recommended above?

A qk glance under ours reveals 2x grey - anybody know the background on these ones?

UPDATE: Ignore this - sorry I see it in the image - thanks (again) Wills....

 

[kave]

If lowering isn't your thing then I'll throw this into the pot. Having spent some time on the German Cali forums I found much discussion into the ocean/beach rear sag & soft rear end (especially when loaded for a trip) for both T5/T6 variants.
This led into pages of analysis into the crazy array of factory VW spring options applicable to all the various van types/chasis/loadings and the conclusion is to fit the 4xgrey set in the rear end, (vw partno in pic below). This not only (optically) levels things up but gives the van a taughter ride, with an improved spring travel to take out the bumps. It definitely reads that everyone who made this change was pleased with the results.
4xgrey equates to the slightly longer and heavier duty rear springs as fitted to the T5 T32 workhorse model.
Practically new sets can be found on eBay for small monies as plenty of folk swap them out for lowered springs. (The 3xgrey are also suitable and fitted to T32 as well).

You've already got the uprated rear ARB so just doing these springs may be enough of an improvement on their own. The next benefit would be to upgrade the rear shocks. Bilstein B6s are probably the top choice but a more affordable alternative might be the SACHS 'super touring' rear shocks (part no. 314725), these can be bought for under £100 for the pair and are again designed to work with the heavy duty suspension. For what it's worth the SACHS super touring shocks for the T4 are pretty much considered as good as, if not better, than the Bilsteins.

As the only change here is at the rear end it's all straightforward labour wise (either DIY or shop) though the 4motion is more hassle with the driveshafts not allowing the hubs to drop low enough to release the springs.

I have a new beach on order and a set ot T32 springs blocking up our hallway so will report back findings sometime down the line when it makes it out of Hanover.
Cheers, Will

View attachment 26543 View attachment 26544

Just ordered a pair of 4x grey springs and will let my VW shop change them. If I had a 2wd I might try but not on the 4 motion. Will get the Sachs super touring next and I think they will be easier to replace myself?

 

[Louis II]

I changed the springs & shocks on my T5 on the back of this thread. Was so impressed I had the front shocks changed to the Sachs ones by my local garage.
I did the rear springs & shocks myself using only the VW supplied jack & levelling ramps.
Shocks are definitely easier than the springs as if you are not able to get both wheels off the ground the ARB keeps the spring under compression and makes it wry difficult to get out.
Personally I think if you are getting a garage to change the springs you might as well get them to do the shocks at the same time as I can’t see how it would even add 5 mins to the job.
Not sure if it’s more complicated on a 4 motion.

 

[kave]

Springs have arrived. Inhave now decided to switch it out myself. I have also ordered the uprated anti toll bar and the sachs shocks.

 

[reserves]

Springs have arrived. Inhave now decided to switch it out myself. I have also ordered the uprated anti toll bar and the sachs shocks.

Be careful and good luck