VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion

[lonsdale13]

Re: POLL: Roof Paintwork Issues

Back from paintshop on Friday and only had time to inspect it fully last night and I am not at all happy,overspay on windscreen and black fingerprints on the roof lining that will not come out. they want to look at it so another 180 mile round trip. this is becoming a joke.

 

[Andy]

Re: POLL: Roof Paintwork Issues

Back from paintshop on Friday and only had time to inspect it fully last night and I am not at all happy,overspay on windscreen and black fingerprints on the roof lining that will not come out. they want to look at it so another 180 mile round trip. this is becoming a joke.

Sorry to hear you have had a less than good result. Realy not good service on what is one of VAGs most expensive vehicles. Overspray & finger prints are a very basic error & so simple to spot on a simple look around the vehicle before returning it to the customer. I would suggest you complain to van centre md & customer services. Tell them they have to collect it & leave you a loan whilst they sort it.

This is why I have not had mine done yet & will only book it in with a van centre who has had +ve feedback on this repair. Also do not want to do it till they have put a better repair in place, such as they are starting to do in Germany.

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[choplee]

Re: POLL: Roof Paintwork Issues

Back from paintshop on Friday and only had time to inspect it fully last night and I am not at all happy,overspay on windscreen and black fingerprints on the roof lining that will not come out. they want to look at it so another 180 mile round trip. this is becoming a joke.

"get straight on the blower my friend to vw commercial vehicles customer services "...

vw think they are something they are not at the moment .

 

[Freeley]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

As a method of preventing any reoccurrence the black plastic ends are set slightly apart from the runners (you have to get very close up to spot this)

I don't quite understand - any chance of a photo showing what you mean?

I'm a bit un-nerved by the thought a new vehicle could have rust within a year that isn't caused by some damage/accident.

Aren't all panels galvanised? I didn't check before buying mine but assumed they would be on a high end VW. If not, then simply respraying the panel is only a short term fix - especially for a panel on the front of the roof which is likely to pick up stone chips, hold water etc.

If it's just plain cold rolled/annealed (ie non galv) and painted steel I'm very disappointed. The only reason this is still sometimes used on vehicles is to reduce cost. :cry:

The roof's aluminium isn't it? I thought it was more a case of the paint not adhering to it properly rather than rust?
Can aluminium rust?

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[Graham]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Aluminium can oxidize. Sailors know this only too well! Prolonged exposure to a salt environment will corrode aluminum quite nicely.

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[Andy]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

As a method of preventing any reoccurrence the black plastic ends are set slightly apart from the runners (you have to get very close up to spot this)

I don't quite understand - any chance of a photo showing what you mean?

I'm a bit un-nerved by the thought a new vehicle could have rust within a year that isn't caused by some damage/accident.

Aren't all panels galvanised? I didn't check before buying mine but assumed they would be on a high end VW. If not, then simply respraying the panel is only a short term fix - especially for a panel on the front of the roof which is likely to pick up stone chips, hold water etc.

If it's just plain cold rolled/annealed (ie non galv) and painted steel I'm very disappointed. The only reason this is still sometimes used on vehicles is to reduce cost. :cry:
The roof's aluminium isn't it? I thought it was more a case of the paint not adhering to it properly rather than rust?
Can aluminium rust?

No aluminium does not rust. A chemical reaction usually occurs when aluminiun & steel touch, this causes the aluminium to break down into a powder like substance, which in our case will cause the paint to blister.
A good example of this is an aluminium engine head bolted to a steel block, over time the reaction occurs & when you try to unbolt the head the bolts will not come undone eventually breaking.

Yes failure of the paint to adhere to the aluminium could also cause the blistering paint. Aluminium is pourous & used to have to be etched before painting. If not 100% dry when painted obviously moisture will be trapped & at a later date the paint starts to blister.


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[Freeley]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

As a method of preventing any reoccurrence the black plastic ends are set slightly apart from the runners (you have to get very close up to spot this)

I don't quite understand - any chance of a photo showing what you mean?

I'm a bit un-nerved by the thought a new vehicle could have rust within a year that isn't caused by some damage/accident.

Aren't all panels galvanised? I didn't check before buying mine but assumed they would be on a high end VW. If not, then simply respraying the panel is only a short term fix - especially for a panel on the front of the roof which is likely to pick up stone chips, hold water etc.

If it's just plain cold rolled/annealed (ie non galv) and painted steel I'm very disappointed. The only reason this is still sometimes used on vehicles is to reduce cost. :cry:
The roof's aluminium isn't it? I thought it was more a case of the paint not adhering to it properly rather than rust?
Can aluminium rust?

No aluminium does not rust. A chemical reaction usually occurs when aluminiun & steel touch, this causes the aluminium to break down into a powder like substance, which in our case will cause the paint to blister.
A good example of this is an aluminium engine head bolted to a steel block, over time the reaction occurs & when you try to unbolt the head the bolts will not come undone eventually breaking.

Yes failure of the paint to adhere to the aluminium could also cause the blistering paint. Aluminium is pourous & used to have to be etched before painting. If not 100% dry when painted obviously moisture will be trapped & at a later date the paint starts to blister.


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That's a very informative post Andy.
You learn something every day!

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[choplee]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Looks like vw have more a problem with it than we used to on our motor yachts that had steel hills and aluminium super structure ... Lol

 

[slowcoach65]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Getting nervous now :?

Cali due back tomorrow following repair of bubbling BUT they found a problem under the leading edge which they had to sort out. At one point, they thought I might need a whole new roof :crazy How would you do that!

If I get her back tomorrow, I'll let you know what they've done.

Andy

 

[kevinstewart500]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

I have just discovered blistering along the roof, there are about 10 different blisters where the roof panel meets the windscreen and up to the poptop. I have a facelift model October 2011, i will contact VW tomorrow, i've just ordered a new one not very encouraging.

 

[slowcoach65]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

It's done

It was done at Vindis, St Ives. Excellent customer service and so far it's looks great. It was done according to VW TPI. Hopefully it won't recur. The only niggle is that the trimming on the off-side has not bonded fully but this should be easy to fix, hopefully whist I wait.

Andy

UPDATE: Trim was sorted. Went direct to the body shop. They did it whilst I waited. Very nice. Told me they had done several of these before!

 

[MichaelB]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Hi Andy. Glad you are pleased. It is alway a worry to have your van in dry dock. Do you know what VW TPI involved? How long was your van in for ?

 

[slowcoach65]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Hi Andy. Glad you are pleased. It is alway a worry to have your van in dry dock. Do you know what VW TPI involved? How long was your van in for ?

The van was in for 5 days but apparently the paint-bay oven broke so it took longer than normal. I saw the TPI on screen. It involved stripping, painting and lacquering the panel. Mine had to be removed as the bubbling went under the leading edge. The side trim/gutters are taken off and replaced.

Hope this helps,

Andy

 

[HistoryBob]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

It would be nice if we could get hold of a copy of this TPI?
Excuse my ignorance, what does TPI stand for?

 

[peter]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Discovered blistering in late April. Now back from holiday, I have just read all 14 pages of posts on this matter, ' in one hit'. A lot to digest! Sorry to hear of all your woes.
My Cali is is just over 4 years old.
I would be grateful to hear from anyone whose Cali was over 3 years old when blistering was rectified. I.E. had it repaired under the 12 year anti corrosion warranty, or free due to a manufacturing fault.
The solution for solving this problem appears to be under discussion within VW. Do I register my fault with VW now or wait until the answer to the problem has been found by VW?

Peter.

 

[Isa Neal]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

My Cali was 12 months old, and has just been fixed via SMG Cowfold, however not under warranty as unlike other warranty issues previously I wasn't asked to sign a form for this roof work but did for other issues-blind, water pump, table, etc etc in the past. my guess is VW will say its a good will gesture. What warranty I have for it I really don't know but Alex informed me that the other Calis they had dealt with hadn't needed further remedial work, and I chose to have mine done ASAP rather than wait til the end of the "good weather" season so I still have nearly 20 months of warranty left.


DSG 180

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Hi Isabelle

The warranty on your roof repair will be the remainder of the existing paint warranty on the vehicle as it was repaired by an Approved Volkswagen Bodyshop.

Thanks

 

[peter]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Hi Isa,
Thank you for your response to my post. Along with SMG's response to you, it has helped with my decision of what to do.
I shall contact SMG Cowfold shortly, to get ' the ball rolling '. Although not my local VW dealer,I was more than satisfied with the work they did on my Cali back in January this year.
Kindest regards.
Peter.

 

[Calicanoe]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

First post, Great stuff for all the work done to progress the paint blistering issue and now I feel one of the club, as I have just discovered blisters on the panel above the windscreen where it meets roof seal. Will be taking it back to dealers this week. For the record and if there is a future where the panel is replaced my reg is BN61XZK.
This is a great forum and Thank You for all the contributions.
Happy Caliing!

 

[SusiBus]

ROOF CORROSION UPDATE FOR CONCERNED OWNERS

We are still on the case! As previously posted, we sent the following letter dated 18th May to:

1. Mr S Thomas, MD Volkswagen Group UK
2. Mr A Smith, Director, VW Commercial Vehicles
3. Mr A Ryder, VW Customer Services


Dear Sir

I am writing to you on behalf of myself and many other dissatisfied California owners whose vehicles are suffering from aluminium roof corrosion – a manufacturing defect which has been present since at least 2006 but not addressed until March 2013.
On 10th/11th/12th May the California Owners Club, in conjunction with VW Van Centre SMG (Cowfold), arranged an event (COTF) and over 110 California T4s and T5s attended. VW Publicity Manager, John Rawlings, was also present. At this event we inspected the joint between the front aluminium box section, adjacent to the side rails, of 89 of the T5s present.

55 of the 89 vehicles had roof corrosion (62%). One of the affected vehicles was only six weeks old.

In our many conversations with VW Customer Care, the inference has always been that this is not a major fault – which it clearly is - both here in the UK and the rest of Europe. When we asked Anthony Ryder how many owners had submitted warranty claims, he said he would need registration numbers to trace these vehicles. To that end, attached is a list of the affected vehicles at COTF. This list includes vehicles repaired, claims submitted, owners yet to submit claims, and vehicles whose owners may be unaware of corrosion on their vehicle.

Many owners are not satisfied with VW’s warranty response to the aluminium roof corrosion these vehicles are suffering. To merely repaint the external paintwork is a “sticking plaster” approach to a problem which is emulating from within the internal aluminium roof box section. It will not eradicate the cause of the problem which is electrochemical corrosion. Yes, it will temporarily be a cure (probably until after the 3 year paint warranty has expired), but not stop the risk of it reoccurring.

These vehicles have not been manufactured with full protection against rust (in this case, corrosion) attacking the internal cavities as stated in VW’s New Vehicle Warranty Guide August 2011 (page 6). “All Volkswagen’s commercial vehicles are manufactured with full protection against rust attacking the internal cavities”. THIS IS A MANUFACTURING DEFECT and as such should be covered by the 12 year Body Protection warranty.

VW are fully aware of their responsibility to ensure this type of corrosion does not take place. In VW’s Body Builder Guidelines 2011, under Section 2 Technical Data for Planning, clause 2.3.2.11 Planning Measures, it states:

“Corrosion protection should be taken into account in the planning and design in the form of a suitable material selection and component design.

Information: If two different metallic materials are connected together by an electrolyte (eg moisture from the air) then this will give rise to a galvanic connection. The result will be electrochemical corrosion, and the less noble metal will suffer damage. The electrochemical corrosion will be all the greater the further apart the metals in question are in the electrochemical series. Therefore, the components must have a suitable treatment or insulation applied to them in order to prevent electrochemical corrosion, or the corrosion must be kept at a low level by a suitable choice of materials”

Up to now VW’s repair procedure has been mainly external repainting and no effective modification has taken place to remedy the cause. From our German contacts we know that VW Germany has finally acknowledged this defect and from March 2013, all new Californias have an insulating barrier between the box aluminium section and the steel bodywork. One of these post March 2013 vehicles with this modification was at COTF. Also, we understand that VW technicians in Germany are undergoing a training course and new repair procedures have been instigated to repair vehicles under warranty.

It is totally unacceptable for any present day vehicle to be suffering from electrochemical corrosion, particularly VW Commercial Vehicles’ most prestigious and expensive vehicle. Some owners have already posted their experiences on YouTube http://youtu.be/L8BEMHZgmWw others have suggested going to the press or Watchdog. At this stage it would be better for VW UK to follow VW Germany and implement the new repair procedure as quickly as possible to stem the growing dissatisfaction of owners.
We deserve, and demand, VW’s assurance that the new repair procedure will be instigated in order to restore our faith in the brand.

Yours faithfully

*******

We have now had acknowledgment from VW UK that they are aware of an issue with roof corrosion and are in contact with engineering and quality colleagues at VW Germany and they will inform us as soon as they receive a response.

In the meantime, they have said:

“if any customers are concerned about their vehicles, we would like them to contact their local VW Van Centre or our customer service centre so we can update them as soon as possible”

As we stated in our letter, this is a MANUFACTURING DEFECT, not merely a paintwork defect, therefore it should be covered by the 12 year warranty. Those owners whose vehicles are approaching 3 years old should probably follow VW advice, but once you have registered the defect you may be pressured to have the current UK repair procedure, rather than the one now being carried out in Germany. Other owners may wish to wait this out for a while and see what happens.

The online survey has only had 40 replies so far. We have a list of 55 vehicles affected by corrosion at COTF alone, so there must be a lot more affected vehicles out there. Please check your roof and post a reply if yours is affected.

Graham (SusiBus)

 

[Meoncoast]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Graham (SusiBus)
Great update and fantastic work. Our van now a year old but no evidence on the issue so no details added. (still checking on every wash or when I think about washing it ) Our drive is on quite a slope and the van is parked nose down so water runs off and cant lay. When I 1st read of the issue I really expected that is was an issue that should be part of the 12 year cover

:goodone

 

[shambly]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Can I suggest the addition of a 4th option to the survey?

My vehicle has blistering but I am waiting for VW to put in place a proper repair strategy

Thats the one i'd tick. Many many thanks to Graham (SusiBus) for their efforts. Lets keep the pressure on.

Simon

 

[barry]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Can I suggest the addition of a 4th option to the survey?

My vehicle has blistering but I am waiting for VW to put in place a proper repair strategy

Thats the one i'd tick. Many many thanks to Graham (SusiBus) for their efforts. Lets keep the pressure on.

Simon

+1

 

[HistoryBob]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Can I suggest the addition of a 4th option to the survey?

My vehicle has blistering but I am waiting for VW to put in place a proper repair strategy

Thats the one i'd tick. Many many thanks to Graham (SusiBus) for their efforts. Lets keep the pressure on.

Simon

Yes. This is my position also. Need to be given some confidence that VW are on top of the problem before I venture to my local Van Centre.

 

[CaliforniaDAN]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

My 2010 60 plate California is in for its second repair under warranty for blistering paintwork today.

I hope this is a permanent fix.