VW Emissions Scandal & The VW California

[calicasas]

The government will look to VW for any loss of revenue, it shouldn't affect the owners.

Look at the bright side, we're lucky - we've got a better performing vehicle (i.e. not strangled) than what we are paying VED for; and anyone with a company vehicle is paying less benefit in kind than they would have been.

Good point on the benefit in kind.
On the VED issue, the government may decide to retrospectively charge VW; but looking forwards, who pays for all future increases in VED by the possible adjustment of the tax band? Does this fall to the car owner? Or does the government say we will keep the tax band the same and then come to a deal with VW on past and potential future income from a change in the VED?

 

[GrannyJen]

The sheer volume of European diesel engines affected is going to make the euro issue a totally different one to the US one.

Volkswagen is crucial to the European economy. For all the hand-on-heart sanctimonious claptrap spouted by politicians they are all basically hypocrites at heart when it comes to looking after themselves, votes and national economies.

I can see a fudge coming. VW is castigated by a fire-breathing Angela, heads roll, talks of compensation rattle the airwaves, politicians wring hands spouting about the "good of the planet", VW are given room to get their house in order and punitive measures are quietly dropped in favour of a round of tax collecting from the poor old tax-paying punter.

 

[TomC]

Sure most people have already seen but this seems reasonably clear on the EU6 engines.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Borris]

Sorry, I posted this earlier but made a complete dogs breakfast of it. Still don't know what i did wrong.

How do you know the EU6 Cali is unaffected?[/QUOTE]

I don't for sure but the press reports on this issue have stated that Euro 6 engines are not affected. However, you are right to raise the question. Who knows what the investigations will uncover!

 

[soulstyledevon]

It's a urea based chemical that helps reduce harmful emissions.

Thankyou Matt

 

[calicasas]

I was reading a recent BBC report on this subject
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34373637

It seems to say that this scandal goes back to 2007, in which case it could affect Eu4 / Eu5 engines

The BBC report amongst other things states that
"On Friday Switzerland temporarily banned the sale of Volkswagen (VW) diesel-engine models which could have devices capable of tricking emission tests, said the move could affect 180,000 cars - not yet sold or registered - in the Euro5 emission category."

Whilst the report isn't conclusive, it just raises more questions than answers.
For the time being, I am not totally believing VW, and the recent revelations would mean that my distrust will continue. They will certainly have to work harder than just a few press releases to convince me they are clean.

 

[calicasas]

Totally agree with Jen here - can't help thinking the tax payer will pick up some of the tab. Maybe I have too many grey hairs.....

The sheer volume of European diesel engines affected is going to make the euro issue a totally different one to the US one.

Volkswagen is crucial to the European economy. For all the hand-on-heart sanctimonious claptrap spouted by politicians they are all basically hypocrites at heart when it comes to looking after themselves, votes and national economies.

I can see a fudge coming. VW is castigated by a fire-breathing Angela, heads roll, talks of compensation rattle the airwaves, politicians wring hands spouting about the "good of the planet", VW are given room to get their house in order and punitive measures are quietly dropped in favour of a round of tax collecting from the poor old tax-paying punter.

a

 

[teeboy]

According to the Sunday Time, apparently the software cheat worked by:

• Detect when vehicle is being tested - eg. engine running, driving along, no steering input
• Increase Adblue input in these circumstances to reduce NOx

So in my simple mind then people who have vehicles that could be effected are people with the EA189 engine (i.e. all T5.1 owners, and owners of most VW diesel EU5 engines!) PLUS have an Adblue System.

I have a T5.1 which is 2013, so not Bluemotion, so I do not have the Adblue system. I might have the software on my ECU, but it can't do anything as I don't have an Adblue system.

What I don't know is if the later T5.1s which are branded as Bluemotion actually have the Adblue system - do people with Bluemotion Calis have an Adblue tank that has to be refilled occasionally?

Final thought - if reducing NOx is a simple matter of adding more Adblue, then why not always add more Adblue?

If you don't have Adblue, then all we have is an EGR to reduce NOx and I don't think a software upgrade can make an EGR valve do anything smart to reduce NOx while on a rolling road.

All just a theory.

T

 

[motacyclist]

What I don't know is if the later T5.1s which are branded as Bluemotion actually have the Adblue system - do people with Bluemotion Calis have an Adblue tank that has to be refilled occasionally?

No, just a badge on the tailgate!

 

[teeboy]

No, just a badge on the tailgate!

So unless the software is smarter than the Sunday Times are claiming I suspect we will be fine...

 

[WelshGas]

T5.1 with Bluemotion, does not have Adblue system. It has the EGR and DPF systems only.
The DPF is basically a passive system that traps Diesel particles.
The EGR is an active system that reduces Oxygen levels and also cylinder temperatures to reduce Nitric Oxide levels.

 

[calicasas]

I listened to a programme on radio 4 (yes I listen to radio 4...) that said the power was reduced during the test such that this artificially lowered NOx emmisions. This would not be useable on the road with such low power output. If this were the case, could they simply not have done a similar thing on older models? Adblue or no Adblue?
The BBC article seems to point toward this being happening back as early as 2007 - I believe this was some time before blue motion came into play? But I might be wrong...

According to the Sunday Time, apparently the software cheat worked by:

• Detect when vehicle is being tested - eg. engine running, driving along, no steering input
• Increase Adblue input in these circumstances to reduce NOx

So in my simple mind then people who have vehicles that could be effected are people with the EA189 engine (i.e. all T5.1 owners, and owners of most VW diesel EU5 engines!) PLUS have an Adblue System.

I have a T5.1 which is 2013, so not Bluemotion, so I do not have the Adblue system. I might have the software on my ECU, but it can't do anything as I don't have an Adblue system.

What I don't know is if the later T5.1s which are branded as Bluemotion actually have the Adblue system - do people with Bluemotion Calis have an Adblue tank that has to be refilled occasionally?

Final thought - if reducing NOx is a simple matter of adding more Adblue, then why not always add more Adblue?

If you don't have Adblue, then all we have is an EGR to reduce NOx and I don't think a software upgrade can make an EGR valve do anything smart to reduce NOx while on a rolling road.

All just a theory.

T

I

 

[WelshGas]

I notice a lot of Cali's for sale on here and auto trader, prices do seem to be tumbling as I have noticed quite a few price reductions over the past week. possibly caused by the VW scandal and the T6

Could be the introduction of the T6, people who are fair weather campers selling prior to ordering a T6 - no point in keeping a vehicle on the drive if they are not using it during winter, or just the seasonal jump at the end of the camping season. Probably a combination of the two.
Of concern if you are selling or a bonus if buying. If you have no intention of selling then it is of no concern whatsoever.
Do you really think people use Emissions as the only criteria when buying a 2nd hand vehicle.
Just my personal take .

 

[GrannyJen]

Thankyou Matt

In other words, whilst VW take the "urea" other manufacturers put it in ...

 

[GrannyJen]

I really can't see 50,000 California's going up for sale over emissions.

I can see uncertainty.

Paradoxically, this is the one time that I would not put my vehicle up for sale. If it is having an effect on 2nd hand values then I would prefer to wait until certainty returns, and also the sunshine, hopefully in spring next year.

People are going to wait before buying a California, Transporter, Passat, Audi or Veyron, be it new or second-hand, why VW I presume are turning Wolfsburg upside down in order to bottom the crisis and start building up again.

 

[robo]

I read that lawyers are inundated with enquiries in the UK. Is it worth getting one on board?

 

[Aidy P]

I read that lawyers are inundated with enquiries in the UK. Is it worth getting one on board?

I'm not sure the lawyers will be able to get any answers yet though?

 

[GrannyJen]

I read that lawyers are inundated with enquiries in the UK. Is it worth getting one on board?

Until there is "harm" the answer must be no.

If VW subsequently turn round and state that action must be undertaken that could prejudice the value or usability of your vehicle then that would be the time, but you would not need to contact them. It will be like PPI, 20 calls a week to your home for the next 20 years.

 

[sidepod]

I read that lawyers are inundated with enquiries in the UK. Is it worth getting one on board?

Thats funny

 

[jts46]

Thats fuuny

It's hilarious, we didn't get one on board for the roof front panel corrosion and who would pay for the legal team.

John

 

[Borris]

I really can't see 50,000 California's going up for sale over emissions.

I can see uncertainty.

Paradoxically, this is the one time that I would not put my vehicle up for sale. If it is having an effect on 2nd hand values then I would prefer to wait until certainty returns, and also the sunshine, hopefully in spring next year.

People are going to wait before buying a California, Transporter, Passat, Audi or Veyron, be it new or second-hand, why VW I presume are turning Wolfsburg upside down in order to bottom the crisis and start building up again.

Hi Jen,
As sheer bad luck would have it, we are due to pick up our new ex demo T5 Cali on thursday. Are we doing the right thing to continue with the purchase? Who knows for sure. Whilst on the one hand, perhaps we should wait and see what happens but on the other I really feel that when all the dust settles, none of this will make that much difference to the Cali appeal or ownership experience. Given the sheer scale of this issue I feel that the fudged solution mentioned in your earlier post is the most likely outcome. There may be a recall to remap (if it turns out that T5s are affected) and/or we will end up paying more VED and fuel tax. However the the main appeal of the Cali and the corresponding demand will, I am sure, still remain just as strong. So I believe, will residuals in the long term.

We have decided to go ahead and collect and see what happens. However, this whole nasty business has taken away much of the excitement and anticipation that should go with collecting a vehicle that we have researched and planned for for nearly three years. We have owned many VW vehicles over the years and despite this very disappointing betrayal of trust, we have not been put off buying VW vehicles. We also feel that if everyone put off buying, this would impact on the many employees around the world who, i am sure, are just as disgusted.

 

[robo]

It's hilarious, we didn't get one on board for the roof front panel corrosion and who would pay for the legal team.

John

I did not mean the forum should get one on board. That would be silly.
I just don't think VW would have their customers best interests in mind, rather a damage limitation mindset. So if I had a lawyer would they look after me. Apart from buying houses and getting unmarried I have no experience of them.

 

[sidepod]

They would certainly take some cash off you, that's for sure.

 

[maxi]

Hi Boris, i was going to put a further update on this link regarding this issue.
I bought my ex demo Cali 3 weeks ago just before this all broke. I am not happy about what has been revealed. Emissions were low on my wants , fuel consumption was, but the reason I really bought this vehicle was that it was always what I wanted and backed by VW, in my eyes a quality manufacturer.
I had also been a member of this Forum for many months and read all the brilliant knowledge base of those that contribute and their observations, mostly positive.
If my engine is one of those involved I will be taking action against VW. I do not like being misled and i do care about the residual value of my vehicle when it comes to selling it.
Regarding the purchase of my vehicle If nothing else offences may have been committed against the Sale of Goods Act, one of the main mantra's of the Act being that Goods bought were as described. If you look at the VW Cali Brouchure for the vehicle re emissions and fuel consumption it does blow its own trumpet somewhat, which is all fine and dandy if you do not get found out.
i spoke this week to VW Customer Services who were awaiting updates from VW Germany. They acknowledged that if Vehicles in the UK are involved it may well affect residual values. They did not know what actions VW may take if this is the case. They took my details and registration number and date when i bought my vehicle
I also spoke to the Dealership where I bought my Van from and they felt that no Californias were involved and on the whole it would not effect residual sales.
So it really wait and see for me, i am aware has already been pointed out to me that this may be a long road and may not end as i would like. I hope my vehicle is not involved but as i have said lets wait and see.

 

[GrannyJen]

Hi Jen,
As sheer bad luck would have it, we are due to pick up our new ex demo T5 Cali on thursday. Are we doing the right thing to continue with the purchase? Who knows for sure. Whilst on the one hand, perhaps we should wait and see what happens but on the other I really feel that when all the dust settles, none of this will make that much difference to the Cali appeal or ownership experience. Given the sheer scale of this issue I feel that the fudged solution mentioned in your earlier post is the most likely outcome. There may be a recall to remap (if it turns out that T5s are affected) and/or we will end up paying more VED and fuel tax. However the the main appeal of the Cali and the corresponding demand will, I am sure, still remain just as strong. So I believe, will residuals in the long term.

We have decided to go ahead and collect and see what happens. However, this whole nasty business has taken away much of the excitement and anticipation that should go with collecting a vehicle that we have researched and planned for for nearly three years. We have owned many VW vehicles over the years and despite this very disappointing betrayal of trust, we have not been put off buying VW vehicles. We also feel that if everyone put off buying, this would impact on the many employees around the world who, i am sure, are just as disgusted.

Borris,

It is very easy for me to say but I think you are doing the right thing.

Whilst others are fretting you will be out enjoying yourselves. A cali is a Cali, that does not change regardless of which bit of engine software is doing what.

I am typing this currently sat on top of the white cliffs of Dover. It is a gorgeous day, I have no idea where I am stopping tonight, I never even expected to be here when I left Chatham this morning. The vehicle as usual provides me with a superb driving experience, the camper provides me with all the choices, flexibility and comforts that I ever want.

Regardless of what happens it is still a cali. We are talking 11m vehicles world wide affected of which some, less than 50,000, are California's and we have no idea what effect, if any,there is. The demand for a camper will not go away just because someone fiddled the emissions and most campers are on VW vehicles so I would really doubt that beyond the 2nd quarter of next year there will be any impact.