4Motion or not?

[Dipps]

Trying to work out whether it is worth the extra to get 4 wd.
I appreciate there are many views but if it was a free choice is it really worth it?

 

[Jester]

Ask yourself is it your daily drive do you live in an area you would be snowed in and u planing trips in winter to the nordics or skiing France /Italy also the extra weight reduces your carrying load .

 

[Borris]

Don't buy it unless you can see yourself actually using it. Don't just get it just in case. It's an expensive option that will effect your MPG and cost more in servicing costs. So if you live in an area that regularly gets nasty weather or you go to places that involve the slippery stuff or you are likely to be venturing off road and I don't mean grassy campsites, then fine. On the other hand if non of the above applies then don't bother and save yourself a small fortune. If you are unlucky enough to get stuck on a grassy camp site then a fiver to get pulled out is still loads cheaper.

The only advantage it gives you is increased traction when getting going, maintaining forward momentum and increasing speed.

 

[2into1]

This is an interesting topic. I personally wouldn't want the extra initial cost nor (particularly) the increased fuel consumption. I have a set of proper winter tyres (on steels) which give me great performance living on the edge of the Peak District.
The 4 motions do tend to command a premium in the used market.... A bigger premium than I would have guessed based on how many people really need/suit a 4WD. I reason that this is down to the Cali being the ultimate campervan, and the 4 motion is the 'ultimate Cali' (capability and top of the price list) and that in itself is enough to keep demand for them high. Some folk just want the best of what's out there, even if they would cope perfectly well with 2WD. Others have genuine needs.

 

[WelshGas]

Trying to work out whether it is worth the extra to get 4 wd.
I appreciate there are many views but if it was a free choice is it really worth it?

You will have many opinions saying it’s not worth the added expense unless you plan to drive off-road regularly or go skiing etc: and most of these comments will be from owners who don’t have 4Motion.
The California, with the correct tyres, is a very capable vehicle in FWD form, especially in the U.K.
I use mine all year round and , enjoy driving interesting roads and although not a speed freak intend to keep up with the masses or lead the way and don’t spend my life in the slow lane.
Audi made the Quattro for a reason and it wasn’t for Off-roading. The 4Motion is more planted, no wheel spin, and equal tyre wear all round and generally a better driving experience, in my opinion.
After 27,000 miles all 4 tyres show tread depths of 4.9mm +/- 0.13 mm.
Will I buy again, Yes, even if I forgo LED headlights , twin-tone or other options. It will be the first option following engine size.

 

[No_heroes]

I initially got a 2WD. I regretted it every day I drove it. Now I have 4Motion and am much happier.

The 4Motion feels much more planted and connected to the road. Definitely a far better vehicle.

There seems to be this perception of ‘if you need it’ or ‘when you are going skiing!’ Ignore these. The 4motion system is used all the time whilst driving and gives you total confidence venturing off the tarmac!

 

[Keith Smith]

I'd intended to get 4wd when I swapped our Cali but the cost was prohibitive for me as I'm happy with the 150 engine and 4wd only comes with the 200 engine, so it's a £6000 option once you factor in the increases VED.

 

[Bellcrew]

I initially got a 2WD. I regretted it every day I drove it. Now I have 4Motion and am much happier.

The 4Motion feels much more planted and connected to the road. Definitely a far better vehicle.

There seems to be this perception of ‘if you need it’ or ‘when you are going skiing!’ Ignore these. The 4motion system is used all the time whilst driving and gives you total confidence venturing off the tarmac!

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing, I wonder what percentage of California's manage perfectly well with 2WD, their owners regarding their near 3 tonne vehicles well and truly planted on the road up hill and down dale.
Your money your choice, a decent test drive or even better hire both for a few days to confirm what suits you best.

 

[Jester]

I initially got a 2WD. I regretted it every day I drove it. Now I have 4Motion and am much happier.

The 4Motion feels much more planted and connected to the road. Definitely a far better vehicle.

There seems to be this perception of ‘if you need it’ or ‘when you are going skiing!’ Ignore these. The 4motion system is used all the time whilst driving and gives you total confidence venturing off the tarmac!

Seems like a lot of money for the “planted and connected feel” when you can achieve this by lowering via 30mm and HD ARB’s as a VW option at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Erbster]

I thought long and hard about whether to go for 4M when we bought our Ocean two years back. Having had a T5 for eight years previously and never having got stuck, I could see little logical argument for it, though my heart wanted it. In the end, I went for 2WD for the reasons in the posts above of cost and emissions, but also for load. I often carry heavy diving gear and would not want to reduce the payload. I also tow a boat (approx 1800kg). I test drove a 4M and didn’t find it “night and day”, though I did notice it doesn’t wheel spin if you pull away with enthusiasm. I have never had a problem on the slipway or with grip in my 150DSG and don’t regret the choice. Every now and again, I wish I had the “top model”, but I have to confess to myself I don’t really need it.

One thing I will say is that the standard tyres are excellent on a dry motorway but are rubbish on anything slippery (muddy campsite, snow). I would strongly advise all weather tyres as an option if you want better grip on surfaces other than dry tarmac.


caliventures364847572.wordpress.com

 

[Velma's Dad]

Seems like a lot of money for the “planted and connected feel” when you can achieve this by lowering via 30mm and HD ARB’s as a VW option at a fraction of the cost.

Or just buy a 2WD Cali and cart a few dozen house bricks around in it permanently... that'll make it feel more 'planted' too.

(I think the 4Motion system adds about 70kg dead weight).

 

[Meoncoast]

Definitely a far better vehicle.

Definitely not in my view happy with 2WD - now is the DSG definitely a far buy than a manual or is an Ocean better than a Beach. @Dipps you will get opposing views go for what "works" for you and your budget. Have you thought about colour? ----- or how many seats you need?

 

[WelshGas]

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing, I wonder what percentage of California's manage perfectly well with 2WD, their owners regarding their near 3 tonne vehicles well and truly planted on the road up hill and down dale.
Your money your choice, a decent test drive or even better hire both for a few days to confirm what suits you best.

Having driven both I would have to disagree i’m afraid.
Up hill and down dale I’m sure you are correct. I’m more interested in L and R on the switch backs.

 

[WelshGas]

Seems like a lot of money for the “planted and connected feel” when you can achieve this by lowering via 30mm and HD ARB’s as a VW option at a fraction of the cost.

Not the same I’m afraid. I have the HD ARBs and 30mm lowered suspension would not produce the same effect as 4 wheel drive. I’m glad you are happy with your choice but there is no comparison.

 

[WelshGas]

Or just buy a 2WD Cali and cart a few dozen house bricks around in it permanently... that'll make it feel more 'planted' too.

(I think the 4Motion system adds about 70kg dead weight).

Your suggestion just makes the vehicle more dangerous.

According to the T6 brochure I have the difference in Payload between the 204\199 DSG 4 Motion and 2WD Ocean comes to a grand total of 17 Kgms.

Why can’t people just accept that others might have an alternative view. I’ve already stated that the FWD California with the correct tyres is a more than capable vehicle for the U.K., but it’s not for me and not for the places I like to visit or drive to, End Of.

 

[No_heroes]

Definitely not in my view happy with 2WD - now is the DSG definitely a far buy than better manual or is an Ocean better than a Beach. @Dipps you will get opposing views go for what "works" for you and your budget. Have you thought about colour? ----- or how many seats you need?

The question was about front wheel drive v 4motion independent of cost considerations.

I’m quite sure everyone wants to justify their own purchase decision - which I respect. However, anyone who has driven both cannot deny that the 4motion is a far superior drivetrain. The front wheel drive van architecture gets the job done- but is impacted by lack of grip in many many situations. Whether it be wet roads, leaves, gravel etc etc I found that every drive I felt some slippage in the front- and when towing it was a disaster especially up any type of gravel incline. Also, DSG can be jerky and combine this with limited grip- it makes for an unpleasant experience.

The 4motion system is a much more connected and stable platform. It gives huge confidence in all situations and takes a lot of anxiety/worry away with any off-tarmac excursions.

I totally get the cost/benefit discussion and do accept it is an expensive uplift- but there is absolutely no doubt it’s a more capable vehicle.

 

[Borris]

Having driven both I would have to disagree i’m afraid.
Up hill and down dale I’m sure you are correct. I’m more interested in L and R on the switch backs.

Each to their own.
I agree that 4 motion will give you better forward traction than fwd under some circumstances but how exactly does it help when going round corners? For that you need grip which is provided by the tyres alone. Without grip a three tonne 4 motion will behave in exactly the same way as a front wheel drive Cali, badly. Also, when going down dale, it will make no difference what so ever on a slippery surface.

 

[Soton Campers]

Having driven two 150 ps 2WD back to back, one with HD Anti roll bars the other without, the one with HD ARB felt more planted with less roll. That's only a £200 option from memory. @Dipps if you are person I think you are then the one you had ( Silver over blue) did not have the HD ARB but the other one (White over blue) does. I've not driven a 4motion however. Hope this helps!

 

[WelshGas]

Each to their own.
I agree that 4 motion will give you better forward traction than fwd under some circumstances but how exactly does it help when going round corners? For that you need grip which is provided by the tyres alone. Without grip a three tonne 4 motion will behave in exactly the same way as a front wheel drive Cali, badly. Also, when going down dale, it will make no difference what so ever on a slippery surface.

If you don’t understand how 4 wheel drive acts in a corner then there is no point in explaining. Yes tyres are important and so is the driving force and direction.

Advantages of 4WD (4 wheel drive vehicles) | Your Online Mechanic

 

[Borris]

If you don’t understand how 4 wheel drive acts in a corner then there is no point in explaining. Yes tyres are important and so is the driving force and direction.

Advantages of 4WD (4 wheel drive vehicles) | Your Online Mechanic

There are many contradictory articles on this subject. Here's just one to counter yours:

Debunking The Myth of All-Wheel Drive

It sounds like having power to all wheels would help drivers negotiate corners and slippery surfaces. But don't believe the hype about all-wheel drive and handling.

www.popularmechanics.com

Extensive high speed driver training in both cars and HGVs as well as skid pan and off road awd training was put to regular use throughout my long career. So I feel that I might have some experience in this field. My last Cali was also a 4 motion!

IMO AWD is a performance enhancing aid. It may enable a quicker exit from a corner but when it comes to the actual cornering it's worth is debatable. However, the right tyre and suspension set up is essential as is correct driver technique.

Some how though, I doubt if we will agree on this issue.

 

[kave]

If you can afford it, get it. It’s better than trying to sleep beeing restless you didn’t get it.

 

[Neuon2003]

Why is the mechanical diff lock an option with 4Motion? As I understand it, without it you have to spin the wheels before the 4Motion electronic lock engages, which might not be ideal for wet grass, snow and sand.

 

[Velma's Dad]

If you don’t understand how 4 wheel drive acts in a corner then there is no point in explaining. Yes tyres are important and so is the driving force and direction.

Advantages of 4WD (4 wheel drive vehicles) | Your Online Mechanic

I don't have any deep expertise in vehicle dynamics but I don't believe for one minute that article was actually written by someone that has any either. Specifically:

"Since power is transmitted equally by all four tires instead of by only two, the load on each tire is reduced and the tires’ cornering force can be effectively utilized, providing excellent stable cornering."

What a lot of guff. Why/how is the load on each tyre reduced? A turning tyre has the same lateral forces acting on it whether it is driven or not. Tyres don't generate 'cornering force', they merely counteract, through friction, the inertial forces acting on the vehicle.

4WD is a great aid to traction in certain circumstances (which is why one of our cars is 4WD, to get us up the hill to our house on the couple of days each year when it snows), but a driver who thinks it will keep them on the road in a corner may be in for a nasty surprise one day.

 

[2into1]

I've no 'skin in the game' but was wondering if the 4motion was dropped from the price list, would the 4 motion devotees not own a Cali?
That hypothetical question at least helps us decide if 4wd is a 'must' have or a 'nice to have'.

 

[GrannyJen]

All these technical arguments aside ....

4motion is my comfort zone. Together with the right tyres it increases my confidence in being able to go off any time, winter or summer, snow or mud, and to be able to keep going in circumstances where I might not be able to without it.

Is it worth it is a moot point wholly dependent on your anticipated use of the vehicle. I do know in all the West Country summer rains of 2014 mud never stopped me, blizzards did not raise my blood pressure in the north Scottish winter of 2016 and pennine hills did not trouble me despite the surface when I was having to dash up to see Mum through crisis upon crisis.

My Cali is an all year round vehicle to be taken anywhere wherever the whim takes me and 4WD is my confidence booster.