AT tyres for 4Motion

[estresao]

Regarding the speedo, at the moment it's around 2 miles/h behind the GPS speed, so I guess this size will makes the speedo read more accuratelly (I don't think it will be perfect, but it is not now)

 

[Ciki62]

I personally go for my next T6 beach:
DISK 7J x 17 H2
Summer: Michelin Latitude cross 235/55 R17 103H XL
Winter: MICHELIN Agilis Alpin 215 / 60 R17 109 T

recommended to me by Seikel, mr. Rossato
1.
"We recommend the possible standard dimensions for the T6, 215/60R17 for the winter and 235/55R17 for the summer."
2.
"In any case we recommend the optional rear differential lock ( PR: 1Y4 )"

 

[estresao]

Lucky you, looks like you got room enought somewhefe to store a set of wheels, I cannot store even a paper sheet.

 

[zeratul]

Thanks HugoFar,

I've already did and 225/65 R17 are the more close to the ones I've got know (BG AT KO2 I mean). They are one cm narrower and diameter is around 3cm bigger, but looks like they will not rub (I made some "investigations"). The bigger diameter will give me a little more than 1cm of more ground clearance.

Hi estresao,

So have you already done these AT tyres? Very interested in knowing for sure.
The 235/65R17 needs steering stop but perhaps 225/65R17 does not.. would be perfect... Same lift, no costs.

 

[estresao]

Not yet.... I'm not quite sure, but I think 225/65 R17 will rub the wheel arc when full turned. I'd like to measure it properly before I can regret. Plan B are Michelin Latitude Cross, but I'd preffer the KO2 because they got the snow flakes, so they can be used in those countries they are mandatory.

Any of you already tried/mesured?

 

[estresao]

According to this Seikel document, 235/65 R17 does not require any change, no steering stop limit is required, so I guess it should be safe to fit 225/65 R17

http://www.seikel.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Höherlegungswerte_T5-T6_2015-10_1221_engl.pdf

 

[zeratul]

But this has changed in the updated version of that document
http://www.seikel.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Höherlegungswerte_T5-T6_2016-07_engl.pdf
No idea why this changed. I guess it would be close.
It is about 235 not 225 though...

 

[estresao]

Using a tire calculator I've seen the one I'd like to fii got a diameter of 28.5".

In the Spanish forun there is a thread talking about BF KO2, and there a people who fitted 225/70 R16, which diameter is 28.4". There is one who fitted 225/75 R17, with a diameter of 29.3"

I've asked them to check wheter it rub for then when fully turned just to double check, but I don't think so, and that means the one I want to fit won't rub as well

 

[HugoFar]

Do remember if you want to fit snow chains to the front wheels the 235 wide appears to be the max width to safely do this. VW recommend narrower tyres in the hand book but our 235/55R17 tyres have room for the Thule XG-12 Pro to work safely. And b they have.

 

[estresao]

It's supposed with BF KO2 you don't need chains (I'm not 100% sure about that) because they got the three peaks montain and the snow flake symbol.

I'n tge worst case I guess, if there is no room for chains and they are needed, we could use those ones which are like fabric?

 

[HugoFar]

Oops, just realised you were talking about 225 wide tyres, not 255. My comment just above is probably not relevant to this discussion. I'll read more carefully next time. Doh.

 

[estresao]

Even if thise are a little narrow, the inner side could run in the wheel arch when wearing chains, because de diameter, when top turning, I don't know how "big" the gap will be

 

[HugoFar]

Even with 4 motion we sometimes still need chains to get up and down our ski field roads due to ice. Luckily Salt is not used in NZ, just grit.

 

[kave]

According to this Seikel document, 235/65 R17 does not require any change, no steering stop limit is required, so I guess it should be safe to fit 225/65 R17

http://www.seikel.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Höherlegungswerte_T5-T6_2015-10_1221_engl.pdf

I think you are reading the table wrong, the table shows what ELSE need to be done except the lift kit. In your case the 235/65 R17 needs Seikel Lift kit AND steering stop limit which gives with changed tires +54mm lift.
The 225/70R17 requires both lift kit and "short seikel axle transmission".
I dont think they meant to give examples to what to get without lift kits, its marketing to buy lift kits.
However, I am sure the margins on the T5/T6 will allow another size but you probably have to try it out.

 

[bvddobb]

I think you are reading the table wrong, the table shows what ELSE need to be done except the lift kit. In your case the 235/65 R17 needs Seikel Lift kit AND steering stop limit which gives with changed tires +54mm lift.
The 225/70R17 requires both lift kit and "short seikel axle transmission".
I dont think they meant to give examples to what to get without lift kits, its marketing to buy lift kits.
However, I am sure the margins on the T5/T6 will allow another size but you probably have to try it out.

I am with Kave. Only 235/55/R17 does not necessarily need modification such as lift kit, steering stop or wheel case. Any higher (235/65, 235/70) will need modifications, the way I read this table.

 

[kave]

And that is because the 235/55 r17 is the original config.

 

[estresao]

Fitting 225/65 R17 I'm not concernet about whether it will rub on the top but in the inner side. When full turning the tire will be in diagonal and could rub inner arch side because the diameter.... the edge/corner of the tire. On the top the gap is big enougth.

As mentioned there are people who fitted 16" tires which diameter is virtually the same, or a little longer, than the ones I would like. I don't think they are getting rub problems because in Spain, to be able to be legal, gou have to get an official certificate, and I don't think they can get it if they rub.

Anycase I wait for their confirmation. Some of the already have Seikel springs and some don't

 

[estresao]

Confirmed by someone who fitted KO with virtually the same diameter: it rub when fully turned.

To fit them we would need steering stop limiter or extension discs..... what a kerfuffle!!!!

 

[zeratul]

Ouch. Yes here in Belgium the law is also very strict. We can only fit tyres that have maximum +1.5% extra circumference. Not sure how Seikel does this. Is Germany less strict? Does the certificate of no objection you get for Seikel suspension or VB Air suspension also apply to the tyres?

 

[estresao]

In Spain, each vehicle have a document which it's similar to the British V5.... in this document there are two, three tire sizes, and it's forbiden fir anything out if them. If you want fit others, you have to get an engineer cerfificate, and then pass the ITV (the Spanish MOT). Failing of do it is ilegal. Even more, for any change you want to make in the vehicle you have to proceed this way: suspension, ligths, number or seats... anything.

I think in Germany is the TUV.

My Cali already havd 235/55 R17 from factory.

I think I'll change my mind and will go for Michelin Latitude Cross.... a pitty it does not have the winter symbol.

There are also Toyo with this size, but don't know hiw good they are. Also General Grabber or Coooer Discovery could be a good one providing they have 235/55 R17

 

[bvddobb]

We can only fit tyres that have maximum +1.5% extra circumference. Not sure how Seikel does this. Is Germany less strict? Does the certificate of no objection you get for Seikel suspension or VB Air suspension also apply to the tyre

The issue is with you speedometer. When the wheels are too big, the speedometer starts to underestimate your actual speed. In most countries that is not allowed. Seikel adapts the settings so that your meter gives the correct speed again.
The certificate of no objection is a VW thing. It indicates that VW are ok with a certain modification and it won't affect your warranty.


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[Loz]

Ouch. Yes here in Belgium the law is also very strict. We can only fit tyres that have maximum +1.5% extra circumference. Not sure how Seikel does this. Is Germany less strict? Does the certificate of no objection you get for Seikel suspension or VB Air suspension also apply to the tyres?

The restriction is to make sure that Braking efficiency is not reduced as a larger diameter wheels need more energy to stop.

 

[zeratul]

Question remains.. how does Seikel get away with the larger wheels? I mean how can they get the legal documents or is germany's TUV less strict on this?
bvddobb, did you have to do anything after fitting those larger tyres? Because it looks like a European thing..

 

[bvddobb]

Question remains.. how does Seikel get away with the larger wheels? I mean how can they get the legal documents or is germany's TUV less strict on this?

Like I said, Seikel adapt the settings of the car software to make sure that the right speed is given by the speedometer. They call that 'Tachoangleigung' or 'Speedo adjustment' on their site.
I have no idea if they also change settings so that breaking efficiency is improved (no idea if that is possible at all, but I could imagine some messing around with ESP and ABS settings...). Anyway, they offer to do this 'Tachoangleigung' and the registration with TÜV. It is not cheap for our van (cheaper for T5.2):

Part certificate from TÜV
We have the appropriate part certificates to ensure that the combination of tyres and wheel rims can be entered in the vehicle documents without any difficulties.
89,25 € (incl. tax)
75,00 € (ex. tax)

Speedo adjustment

• for Volkswagen T5 up to MY 2010
  446,25 € (incl. tax)
  375,00 € (ex. tax)
• for Volkswagen T5 from MY 2011
  35,70 € (incl. tax)
  30,00 € (ex. tax)

bvddobb, did you have to do anything after fitting those larger tyres? Because it looks like a European thing..

No, I just checked with GPS that our speedometer gives no underestimation. In my understanding that is enough here in NL. There is nothing in the car registration about wheel sizes.

 

[estresao]

@bvddobb, which tire size do you wear? I thougth you were using "standard" size, 235/55 R17 for example.