AT tyres for 4Motion

[estresao]

In my Cali, manufacturer recommended sizes are the following:

 

[bvddobb]

@bvddobb, which tire size do you wear? I thougth you were using "standard" size, 235/55 R17 for example.

Our winters are ' T5.1 standard size': 215/65 R16. Our 'summers' are slightly larger AT's: 225/70 R16. Their circumference is about 5% larger than 'standard'. But with our 'standard' size winters the speedometer overestimates the actual speed with approx 5%, with our larger summers the speed is exact, cf GPS.

 

[estresao]

That makes more sense to me. My Cali wear 235/55 R12 from factory.

 

[estresao]

Still thinking in BFG KO2

I've had a look to a thread in VW T4 Forum about this subject, and there are people who fitted massive tires.... the ones I want fit looks like biscuits compared to them.

I've found many of them use spacers, which could be a neat solution in my case because I'd go from 235 wide to 225. The point here is how thick the spacers should be to prevent tires from rubbering when fully turned. There are many people wearing 20mm ones, but they are aso fitting very big tires.

Do you think something like that could work? http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=423383

 

[estresao]

Yet another spacers option: http://www.wheelspacers.uk.com/index.php?cat=c732_Volkswagen.html&bezeichnung=Bus T5&typ=7H

 

[estresao]

WOW!!!! Have a look to this article.... made in UK!: http://www.reifenpresse.de/2013/01/23/vw-t5-multivan-von-delta4x4-mit-bfgoodrich-reifen/


They are using 245/65 R17

 

[zeratul]

From http://www.vanworx.co.uk/extras/ I see they are working with Delta
http://www.delta4x4.de/produkte-kataloge.html
T5 and T6 are presented, but one link refers to amarok in error.
Either way, this looks kind of cool
http://www.delta4x4.de/fileadmin/delta4x4/pdf/Preislisten_April_2015/VW_T5_Transporter_RETAIL.pdf
They also have 30mm and 40mm spacers for T5.
http://www.delta4x4.de/fileadmin/user_upload/VW_T6_2015_10_K_mail.pdf

 

[Robert RIGG]

For information: I have just fitted BF Goodrich 225 65 17 KO2 to our 2015 T5 TDi400 4Motion Transporter pop top - Pretend Cali .

Fitted without any problems. Raised van 18mm (210mm Ground clearance now fully loaded + extra spare wheel.) No spacers, no lift, all standard.

The tyres do not rub anywhere on full lock.

They should be OK with small chains on front (though the chains might rub on full lock). We don't often need chains here in Aus.

The closest they come to being a problem is that the rear tyres only clear the behind inner (Plastic) guard by 16mm, not a lot of room for thick mud builds up.
Note 235 65 17 tyres will only leave 7mm for mud build up on, if van left at standard height!!!!

I am running 45psi all round, steers, rides and turns well.

It is great to have an extra18mm tyre wall height and not be afraid of denting the rims.

Good Luck

PS Yes they are a bit noisy!

 

[zeratul]

Interesting. So air suspension with these tyres is probably the perfect combination.. raise the van for off road..
Still afraid about European rules though.

 

[B J G]

Have you tried a search on the BF Goodrich site for options?

One that seems a good compromise without changing the gearing (upsetting speedo reading) could be

http://www.bfgoodrich.co.uk/gb/rang...in-T-A/(ts)/d::215::60::17::96::H#detail-tire

a bit less tyre width but more if you look at rally cars they go narrower for off road use. Cuts through mud & snow better.

The 17" wheel restricts options greatly. I couldn't track down a pure off road tyre that met the load & speed rating to match original factory spec. deviating from that,as many others have pointed out, is to put the vehicle into an illegal road use category.

 

[estresao]

For information: I have just fitted BF Goodrich 225 65 17 KO2 to our 2015 T5 TDi400 4Motion Transporter pop top - Pretend Cali .

Fitted without any problems. Raised van 18mm (210mm Ground clearance now fully loaded + extra spare wheel.) No spacers, no lift, all standard.

The tyres do not rub anywhere on full lock.

They should be OK with small chains on front (though the chains might rub on full lock). We don't often need chains here in Aus.

The closest they come to being a problem is that the rear tyres only clear the behind inner (Plastic) guard by 16mm, not a lot of room for thick mud builds up.
Note 235 65 17 tyres will only leave 7mm for mud build up on, if van left at standard height!!!!

I am running 45psi all round, steers, rides and turns well.

It is great to have an extra18mm tyre wall height and not be afraid of denting the rims.

Good Luck

PS Yes they are a bit noisy!

Good news. Just to double check, where there is no much room is... in the inner side?


Here in Spain there is a guy wearing those tyres on BMW wheels (smaller ET) and looks amazing. Look at it:

 

[B J G]

Still thinking in BFG KO2

I've had a look to a thread in VW T4 Forum about this subject, and there are people who fitted massive tires.... the ones I want fit looks like biscuits compared to them.

I've found many of them use spacers, which could be a neat solution in my case because I'd go from 235 wide to 225. The point here is how thick the spacers should be to prevent tires from rubbering when fully turned. There are many people wearing 20mm ones, but they are aso fitting very big tires.

Do you think something like that could work? http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=423383

Beware of fitting spacers as you will get 'bump steer' and it also can load the wheel bearings. Practical experience of this from way back on cars.
Bump steer is when a front wheel hits a bump, even a minor one, and the steering wheel turns in your hands needing a correction. If you had an accident the Insurance wouldn't pay out if they hadn't approved of the modification. You could also be prosecuted for driving without valid insurance.

 

[estresao]

Beware of fitting spacers as you will get 'bump steer' and it also can load the wheel bearings. Practical experience of this from way back on cars.
Bump steer is when a front wheel hits a bump, even a minor one, and the steering wheel turns in your hands needing a correction. If you had an accident the Insurance wouldn't pay out if they hadn't approved of the modification. You could also be prosecuted for driving without valid insurance.

That's the point using rims with smaller ET, no spacers required

 

[Robert RIGG]

Have you tried a search on the BF Goodrich site for options?

One that seems a good compromise without changing the gearing (upsetting speedo reading) could be

http://www.bfgoodrich.co.uk/gb/rang...in-T-A/(ts)/d::215::60::17::96::H#detail-tire

a bit less tyre width but more if you look at rally cars they go narrower for off road use. Cuts through mud & snow better.

225 x 65 series give a wall increase of 17.25mm over 215 x 60. That is mainly what I was after.
In 21,000km I have dented 2 steel rims and totally destroyed one near new 235 x 55 road tyre. Here in the "outback" they have "gibbers" stones on dirt roads, they are granite like about cricket ball size and in the heat they split in half, leaving a rock like a stone age axe head with razor sharp edges. The trick is to let your tyres down as much as you are game and hopefully avoid the gibbers poking straight through the taunt tyre case. When you let 235 x 55 series and 215 x 60 tyres (same height) down there is not enough wall left to drive on.
If I was about to pull good 55 series road tyres off and pay au$1220 for a set of ATs I thought I should have aggressive ones, and these were the only tyres that I could see would fit without rubbing and comply with the required load ratings. Lifting the van was a bonus.
I do a bit a off road racing (Motorkhana) in a 205 Peugeot and I agree narrow tyres are the way to go

 

[bvddobb]

225 x 65 series give a wall increase of 17.25mm over 215 x 60. That is mainly what I was after.

That's why we went for 225/70/R16. Same outer wheel size and extra (2 cm) bottom clearance, but even higher walls still than 225/65/R17.
Still, however high your walls, if you want your tyres to live long in difficult circumstances, it is even more important to adapt their pressure to the terrain often.

 

[Robert RIGG]

Pity the TDi400 must have 17" wheels to clear the bigger front brakes. There are a lot more options in 16" tyres

 

[zeratul]

Have you tried a search on the BF Goodrich site for options?

One that seems a good compromise without changing the gearing (upsetting speedo reading) could be

http://www.bfgoodrich.co.uk/gb/rang...in-T-A/(ts)/d::215::60::17::96::H#detail-tire

a bit less tyre width but more if you look at rally cars they go narrower for off road use. Cuts through mud & snow better.

4 motions (at least T5.2+) require 17 inch unfortunately...

 

[zeratul]

To summarize for us, Cali T5.2 and T6 4motion users, who have manufacturer recommended tyre sizes:
215/60 R17C 104/102T M&S
235/55 R17 103H
255/45 R18 103W

Legally in Europe, there are no other tyre sizes possible within the +1,5% -2% rule. I tried all possible combinations - these are the only three.
And for none of these three sizes I can find All Terrain tyres that have the required load rating >102.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
We can get those BF Goodrich 225/65 R17 tyres which have 5% larger circumference but getting that approved is nearly impossible. It's good to know that it's possible though.

Another option, also illegal (but slightly less so) is 225/60 R17 which is only 1.67% larger (and 1.5% is the max) and then there is Maxxis AT-771 Bravo 225/60 -17 103T

 

[bvddobb]

The legality has to do with your speedometer. You can have other wheel sizes, but then you need to have your speedometer adjusted, so that it's correct within the legal limits. That seems to be easy for the 5.2 . See the Seikel website. They offer this service in combination with a change of wheels/tyres and for the 5.2 the speedometer adjustment is lots cheaper than for the 5.1.


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[estresao]

Pity the TDi400 must have 17" wheels to clear the bigger front brakes. There are a lot more options in 16" tyres

In Spain's forum there are at leasf two guys whi replaced the brakes for the "normal" ones and fitted 16" wheels.

 

[zeratul]

The legality has to do with your speedometer. You can have other wheel sizes, but then you need to have your speedometer adjusted, so that it's correct within the legal limits. That seems to be easy for the 5.2 . See the Seikel website. They offer this service in combination with a change of wheels/tyres and for the 5.2 the speedometer adjustment is lots cheaper than for the 5.1.


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That's the easy part, but there's more. I contacted them about it and there are certificates and confirmations from VW necessary. The type of documents you need depends on your national laws. Seikel can supply the documents for the German market only .. Not for Belgium.

 

[Robert RIGG]

The legality has to do with your speedometer. You can have other wheel sizes, but then you need to have your speedometer adjusted, so that it's correct within the legal limits. That seems to be easy for the 5.2 . See the Seikel website. They offer this service in combination with a change of wheels/tyres and for the 5.2 the speedometer adjustment is lots cheaper than for the 5.1.


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I read (somewhere) that the 5.2 speedo can be adjusted via your ECU.

 

[WelshGas]

In Spain's forum there are at leasf two guys whi replaced the brakes for the "normal" ones and fitted 16" wheels.

I wonder what the Insurance company said - " so you downgraded the brakes to fit Off Road tyres that have less grip and longer stopping distances on tarmac roads where all the traffic is? "
" Which Funeral Plan would you like to take out, Sir? "

 

[estresao]

I wonder what the Insurance company said - " so you downgraded the brakes to fit Off Road tyres that have less grip and longer stopping distances on tarmac roads where all the traffic is? "
" Which Funeral Plan would you like to take out, Sir? "

In Spain thing are very different than in UK, you HAVE TO get an official certification for almost any change in your vehicle and pass the ITV (MOT) to be legal. It's by far more strict than in UK. Police chase pretty much ilegal changes, so the smalest concern is what insurers says (providing you are legal).

I've seen vehicle fail to pass an ITV because the V5 equivalent reads the shocks absorvers are yellow and the owner fited red ones.

The V5 equivalent have a list of which tyres are legal for each vehicle and you cannot wear anything different. The certification are provided by certificated engineers.

Thise guys passed all the proceses to be legal.

 

[estresao]

BTW, most of T5 Calis havs 16" wheels and suitable breaks with no funeral plan required