Discussion regarding T6 ONLY roof corrosion

[Borris]

.........and why does the roof have to be made of alluminium? Rhetorical question I know. Its down to cost, strength and lightness. However, there must be other materials that would fit that brief without possessing the ability to crumble to white dust. How about carbon fibre with the fittings for optional factory fitted solar panels included in the structure. Yes, it probably would be more expensive to manufacture but surely not so if you take into account the cost of all the repair work VW are now having to carry out. I also feel that VW could have done this along time ago without too much, if any modification of the basic T5/6 design. I suspect that VW may well have looked into alternatives roof materials at some point but concluded that most customers won't notice anything wrong during the warrantee period and after that it's their problem.
It's my guess that the tape may buy you a little extra time but will not prove to be the cure.

 

[frenchie]

Lets be honest the vw California is a very under undeveloped converted van. There are lots of areas that could do with improvements. But for VW its a cash cow. Maybe if they had strong competition things would be different but they don't. So each year they turn out the same problems and much the same product. F

 

[Trebor]

Having been an avid forum reader a while ago, work has kept me away from things recently. Having read this thread I am wondering if there is an emerging consensus on what to do if you have a pre-dec 16 T6?

1. Blissful ignorance until bubbles appear above seal or until just before warranty expires
2. Apply tape now (on top of what will probably, upon inspection, be early small bubbles in the paint
3. Remove, find small bubbles and claim now.
4. Sell it and buy something else

One nuance is having bought the extended warranty (from VW not third party) from new stating it extends the original warranty on the same basis - is the time to look now, end of original or extended warranty?

My approach to date has been 1. - getting on and enjoying the cali - but it has been in the back of my mind.

Hi California Dreamin (Great name )

I’ve taken the following steps over the last 2 1/2 years after reading about the roof problems on this Forum .I dropped my seal down and cleaned the roof edge . I then saw early corrosion but my van had been in a dehumidified garage a lot of the time . Having decided that there was no way I wanted to go down the Vw repair route having read and seen the horror stories I decided to try to stop the corrosion myself .

1 I asked for replacement roof seals 3 or 4 over a 2 year period ( nothing was quick) until I got one that didn’t have exposed metal inside which I think is the cause of all the problems ( this can’t be seen with the naked eye ) . Finally I got one . Don’t know whether this was luck or the quality control has improved . You need x 5 mag min and bright light to check the seal internals especially the front and corner welds .

2 In the meantime I cleaned the edge of the roof 2/3 times a year having gently removed any early bubbles ( there weren’t many ) and put a light film of silicone grease on the edge of the roof which sqidged out when the seal was refitted . Wipe off excess . This seemed to halt the process even when I knew the refitted seal was defective.

3 When finally I got a good seal I was also given the edge clear tape as I requested having personally seen this applied in the Hannover factory . I wasn’t sure about retro fitting the tape for the reasons you suggest so decided to fit the new seal with silicone grease as before . When fitting a new seal it’s best not to use grease initially until the seal has got a good memory then remove and use silicone grease ( after a few days) . In the factory the seals were hammered on with a mallet ! This can’t have helped . I just pushed on by hand . Not difficult .

4. This was all over the last 2/12 years and so far so good but I am due to have another look soon .

Above all enjoy your van . That’s what it’s for and Good Luck .

 

[sbmcd]

Hi California Dreamin (Great name )

I’ve taken the following steps over the last 2 1/2 years after reading about the roof problems on this Forum .I dropped my seal down and cleaned the roof edge . I then saw early corrosion but my van had been in a dehumidified garage a lot of the time . Having decided that there was no way I wanted to go down the Vw repair route having read and seen the horror stories I decided to try to stop the corrosion myself .

1 I asked for replacement roof seals 3 or 4 over a 2 year period ( nothing was quick) until I got one that didn’t have exposed metal inside which I think is the cause of all the problems ( this can’t be seen with the naked eye ) . Finally I got one . Don’t know whether this was luck or the quality control has improved . You need x 5 mag min and bright light to check the seal internals especially the front and corner welds .

2 In the meantime I cleaned the edge of the roof 2/3 times a year having gently removed any early bubbles ( there weren’t many ) and put a light film of silicone grease on the edge of the roof which sqidged out when the seal was refitted . Wipe off excess . This seemed to halt the process even when I knew the refitted seal was defective.

3 When finally I got a good seal I was also given the edge clear tape as I requested having personally seen this applied in the Hannover factory . I wasn’t sure about retro fitting the tape for the reasons you suggest so decided to fit the new seal with silicone grease as before . When fitting a new seal it’s best not to use grease initially until the seal has got a good memory then remove and use silicone grease ( after a few days) . In the factory the seals were hammered on with a mallet ! This can’t have helped . I just pushed on by hand . Not difficult .

4. This was all over the last 2/12 years and so far so good but I am due to have another look soon .

Above all enjoy your van . That’s what it’s for and Good Luck .

Keeping the water out and preventing one of the key elements of the corrosion cell will work, not sure I would have your enthusiasm for doing it quite so often.

 

[Trebor]

Keeping the water out and preventing one of the key elements of the corrosion cell will work, not sure I would have your enthusiasm for doing it quite so often.

Hi Sbmcd . It takes about an hour couple of times a year .

 

[California Dreamin]

Thanks for all your comments - I tend to share your view Boris. It feels that we have to make a basic choice between doing everything in our power to slow the inevitable (your admirable approach Trebor) or accept the inevitable and resign ourselves to the near-end-of-warranty claim (and subsequent rework).

The extended factory warranty (the one you can only by at or very close the the time of purchase, extends cover on the original warranty basis but looks like it probably excludes the roof:

---------------
A comprehensive package for complete peace of mind.
•Extended warranties offer you exactly the same level of cover as the original manufacturer warranty.
•There is no limit to the number of claims you can make, no excess and no requirement to pay and then reclaim the costs.
•All repairs will be carried out by the Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles' authorised network using genuine parts.
•The warranty is fully transferable to a new owner (and subsequent owners) should you sell, which will help to enhance the resale value.
•For any repairs, just contact any Volkswagen Van Centre.

and then the exclusions include:
Bodywork, unless covered by a Volkswagen Commercial Vehicle anti-perforation warranty.
-----------------

I imagine the anti perforation warranty only covers rust - hence the need for the extension of the warranty on the roof from 3 to 6 years on the T5.

Assuming the tape has slowed (or even eradicated) the problem occurring within 3 years, it is likely that there is a pretty small population of us in the UK having the problem on a T6 within the warranty period (ie T6s without tape.) It may therefore be difficult to get the same 'extension' offered on the T5 - leaving us in the worse position of all. Is anyone specifically pursuing VW to get the same 6 years' as for the T5?

On this basis, and assuming the tape doesn't permanently sort the problem - just slows it, I am better off avoiding preventative action (that may invalidate the warranty) and 'seeing' the problem just before the 3 year warranty expires rather than taking steps to move it into the non-warranty period that follows. Does this make sense? Is this what the other 2016 T6 No-tapers are doing?

We came pretty close to selling this week (WBAC 35k) but have decided life is too short to sit and worry about this....a philosophy that is not always easy to apply - and the roof issue bubbles back into my mind frequently.

 

[ArunAlec]

Lets be honest the vw California is a very under undeveloped converted van. There are lots of areas that could do with improvements. But for VW its a cash cow. Maybe if they had strong competition things would be different but they don't. So each year they turn out the same problems and much the same product. F

Reckon VW have spent all their pennies buying back the 350,000 diesel gate cars in the US, nothing left for retrospective development!

 

[kaf2546]

Thanks for all your comments - I tend to share your view Boris. It feels that we have to make a basic choice between doing everything in our power to slow the inevitable (your admirable approach Trebor) or accept the inevitable and resign ourselves to the near-end-of-warranty claim (and subsequent rework).

The extended factory warranty (the one you can only by at or very close the the time of purchase, extends cover on the original warranty basis but looks like it probably excludes the roof:

---------------
A comprehensive package for complete peace of mind.
•Extended warranties offer you exactly the same level of cover as the original manufacturer warranty.
•There is no limit to the number of claims you can make, no excess and no requirement to pay and then reclaim the costs.
•All repairs will be carried out by the Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles' authorised network using genuine parts.
•The warranty is fully transferable to a new owner (and subsequent owners) should you sell, which will help to enhance the resale value.
•For any repairs, just contact any Volkswagen Van Centre.

and then the exclusions include:
Bodywork, unless covered by a Volkswagen Commercial Vehicle anti-perforation warranty.
-----------------

I imagine the anti perforation warranty only covers rust - hence the need for the extension of the warranty on the roof from 3 to 6 years on the T5.

Assuming the tape has slowed (or even eradicated) the problem occurring within 3 years, it is likely that there is a pretty small population of us in the UK having the problem on a T6 within the warranty period (ie T6s without tape.) It may therefore be difficult to get the same 'extension' offered on the T5 - leaving us in the worse position of all. Is anyone specifically pursuing VW to get the same 6 years' as for the T5?

On this basis, and assuming the tape doesn't permanently sort the problem - just slows it, I am better off avoiding preventative action (that may invalidate the warranty) and 'seeing' the problem just before the 3 year warranty expires rather than taking steps to move it into the non-warranty period that follows. Does this make sense? Is this what the other 2016 T6 No-tapers are doing?

We came pretty close to selling this week (WBAC 35k) but have decided life is too short to sit and worry about this....a philosophy that is not always easy to apply - and the roof issue bubbles back into my mind frequently.

I am of the same view as you, I use Cali to max and will check just before 3 year warranty end and get tape or whatever. Proper rust (as opposed to aluminium oxidisation) will start to show elsewhere after 8-10 years anyway so anything in the roof will just be cosmetic and back of my mind. Saw an 05 with bare aluminium at front roof spoiler and it wasn’t ugly, kind of liked the way the whole van looked like it had been used and enjoyed rather than a showpiece on the drive.


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[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for all your comments - I tend to share your view Boris. It feels that we have to make a basic choice between doing everything in our power to slow the inevitable (your admirable approach Trebor) or accept the inevitable and resign ourselves to the near-end-of-warranty claim (and subsequent rework).

The extended factory warranty (the one you can only by at or very close the the time of purchase, extends cover on the original warranty basis but looks like it probably excludes the roof:

---------------
A comprehensive package for complete peace of mind.
•Extended warranties offer you exactly the same level of cover as the original manufacturer warranty.
•There is no limit to the number of claims you can make, no excess and no requirement to pay and then reclaim the costs.
•All repairs will be carried out by the Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles' authorised network using genuine parts.
•The warranty is fully transferable to a new owner (and subsequent owners) should you sell, which will help to enhance the resale value.
•For any repairs, just contact any Volkswagen Van Centre.

and then the exclusions include:
Bodywork, unless covered by a Volkswagen Commercial Vehicle anti-perforation warranty.
-----------------

I imagine the anti perforation warranty only covers rust - hence the need for the extension of the warranty on the roof from 3 to 6 years on the T5.

Assuming the tape has slowed (or even eradicated) the problem occurring within 3 years, it is likely that there is a pretty small population of us in the UK having the problem on a T6 within the warranty period (ie T6s without tape.) It may therefore be difficult to get the same 'extension' offered on the T5 - leaving us in the worse position of all. Is anyone specifically pursuing VW to get the same 6 years' as for the T5?

On this basis, and assuming the tape doesn't permanently sort the problem - just slows it, I am better off avoiding preventative action (that may invalidate the warranty) and 'seeing' the problem just before the 3 year warranty expires rather than taking steps to move it into the non-warranty period that follows. Does this make sense? Is this what the other 2016 T6 No-tapers are doing?

We came pretty close to selling this week (WBAC 35k) but have decided life is too short to sit and worry about this....a philosophy that is not always easy to apply - and the roof issue bubbles back into my mind frequently.

For me this may come down to a mind set issue, certainly at the moment anyway. I am one of the lucky (?) ones who have tape on my roof and if I am honest I will simply put it to the back of my mind until a few weeks before the warranty expires unless I notice something whilst I am cleaning my Cali when I will act accordingly. I have the 5 year extended warranty but like you do not trust in the words that the roof is covered in this extension. We will see, I have no doubt. In the meantime we will enjoy our Cali unfettered by what might happen. That said currently I worry more about the extraordinary amounts of salt that we seem to have on our roads this winter. This salt will do damage to our Cali's and it is impossible to avoid this unless you simply do not use your Cali in the winter. There are many aluminium components (and other materials) as part of the engine/cooling system etc that are unprotected from corrosion and other parts that are protected but that protection will be breached by use and/or age. This is inevitable and we all accept/don't worry/don't think about this.
I am not saying VW should not stand up to their responsibilities, they should, and I would be the first to stand my ground if I felt they were falling short. (I have already taken them to task over published v delivered emissions and the resulting VED rate change and won a small victory).
Just trying to put all this into perspective (if for nobody else) and help us all enjoy our Cali's as much as we can/should.

 

[Neil Blackburn]

Cherry Red Vw Ocean July 2017. Pulled off the tape in a couple of places but the seal does appear to be well stuck on, with my Cali. No signs of any corrosion and does have the tape fitted. Cleaned it up and applied silicone grease around the top of the seal. I will have another go at removing more of the seal when i have more time.

 

[TomC]

Was cleaning round the rubber seals of by 2 year old Ocean and found the dreaded rust of doom. Booked in for inspection on 18th.

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[DM]

Was cleaning round the rubber seals of by 2 year old Ocean and found the dreaded rust of doom. Booked in for inspection on 18th.

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Oh dear - bad news Tom. Our Ocean is 2 years old and is also affected. I noticed it a few months ago and am still 'waiting' for a response. You've reminded me to chase it up.

 

[sbmcd]

Was cleaning round the rubber seals of by 2 year old Ocean and found the dreaded rust of doom. Booked in for inspection on 18th.

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Your T6 appears to be the roof pre tape version? Also the paint bubbling is normally is found the sides and rear of the roof where the water ponds in the seal, your photo suggests to me that something different is happening, surprised to see the rust colour from an aluminium roof.

Is there any sign of exposed metal within the seal at that location?

 

[Digger]

TomC, Can you show other images of the section of roof please.

 

[Loz]

Was cleaning round the rubber seals of by 2 year old Ocean and found the dreaded rust of doom. Booked in for inspection on 18th.

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That is interesting; looks like rust but the roof is aluminium so I wonder if this is a bit of steel contamination under the paint??

 

[B J G]

Puzzled as it doesn't look like a Cali roof to me.

 

[TomC]

Puzzled as it doesn't look like a Cali roof to me.

I can guarantee it is.


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[TomC]

TomC, Can you show other images of the section of roof please.

Can take another picture later but have put the rubber back on. The rest of the paint all the way round the vehicle was perfect with no blistering. Just this one point on very front edge above drivers corner.


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[TomC]

Can take another picture later but have put the rubber back on. The rest of the paint all the way round the vehicle was perfect with no blistering. Just this one point on very front edge above drivers corner.


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[TomC]

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[Bramco]

Is there any rust inside the rubber. The seals are made with a steel insert inside the rubber. It's been the opinion on the forum for a while that the aluminium corrodes due to contact with bits of steel poking out of the rubber.

Also does the brown residue on the roof clean off? If you take a look at some of the other photos of the corrosion, you'll see that this looks like something else completely.

 

[TomC]

Is there any rust inside the rubber. The seals are made with a steel insert inside the rubber. It's been the opinion on the forum for a while that the aluminium corrodes due to contact with bits of steel poking out of the rubber.

Also does the brown residue on the roof clean off? If you take a look at some of the other photos of the corrosion, you'll see that this looks like something else completely.

Tried cleaning it off and it wouldn’t come off. On close inspection it looks like a joint where the rust has formed. Will look inside the rubber also.


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[gear box oil]

looks like a bit of metal swarf has been trapped under the seal. not the usual bubbles from the aluminum corosion, looks to be on top of the paint rather than coming from underneath.
Its possable it was trapped under the seal before the paint was cured.

I would still be looking to VW to fix it and replace the seal.

Take it in to VW for the report and after that try cleanning it with T cut or something similar its possable you may be able to clean the rust marks off the paint.

on the up side the rest of the roof edge is clear but still worth keeping a eye on it.

 

[SusiBus]

The roof cannot rust because it's aluminium, it can corrode which will leave a white deposit. Almost certainly it's rust from an exposed part of the metal insert in rubber seal, just needs the rust staining rubbed off the roof and a new rubber seal put on.

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[B J G]

I can guarantee it is.


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My error, thought it was a front to rear view but now see its a side view in new photos.

Is that a rust stain on the body where the seal closes onto?
looking like a seal problem as others have identified.