Has a new Cali become just too expensive?

[soulstyledevon]

All great vans, but you get more driver waves in the T4!

I did the short shift mod in my old T4 and then extended the gear stick to the level of the dash...
It was a bit of a laugh and definitely full of character.

 

[SimonK]

Like the majority of new vehicles, new Californias are ridiculously overpriced these days

 

[WelshGas]

Could the fact that a majority of new vehicles nowadays are on PCP or similar?

 

[Calimili]

The advantage of the California is, because of its wide range of specs, "drivability" etc, it can substitute a regular car. The high priced Calis have options you would only consider on a car, not a Motorhome. Already 150Ps is in the high range for power for motorhomes, let alone the 199hp, 17"-18" alloys, Antiroll bars, LEDs, 4Motion, DSG, only seldomly specced in a motorhome. 99% of the ducato based MH don't have any of these. And those options raise the price of a Cali quite a bit.
But this allows you, also thanks to its reduced size, to use it as a single car. Every day. That makes the Cali much cheaper than owning two vehicles. I hit 200km/h on the Autobahn, try that with any ducato!
Of course it depends on personal circumstances. It is my second vehicle and live alone. But during Lockdown I used the Cali exclusively as a daily vehicle and it did the job. Loved it.

 

[Elmo3]

Could the fact that a majority of new vehicles nowadays are on PCP or similar?

Absolutely. A low ‘affordable’ monthly payment and huge balloon can very successfully disguise significant capital cost increases. It enables manufacturers and dealers to make hay with retail customers. Same with houses. The price is set on the margin by how much a bank will lend against it.

 

[GSX1300R]

The problem is when you “Load” a vehicle with ALL the extras you will never get all that money back when you sell it..Obviously you will get some back but “Extras” are for your benefit when you own it plus if you vehicle is loaded it will obviously be easier to sell. £2850 for two tone paint will not add £2850 on the resale value..I found this out to my cost on a Mercedes SLK with all the bits...Dealer says extras don’t count when trading in..

 

[Borris]

The problem is when you “Load” a vehicle with ALL the extras you will never get all that money back when you sell it..Obviously you will get some back but “Extras” are for your benefit when you own it plus if you vehicle is loaded it will obviously be easier to sell. £2850 for two tone paint will not add £2850 on the resale value..I found this out to my cost on a Mercedes SLK with all the bits...Dealer says extras don’t count when trading in..

However, it's a different story when they put your car up for sale on their forecourt.

 

[calibusje]

Absolutely. A low ‘affordable’ monthly payment and huge balloon can very successfully disguise significant capital cost increases. It enables manufacturers and dealers to make hay with retail customers. Same with houses. The price is set on the margin by how much a bank will lend against it.

did not know what PCP or simular was but now I understand (English is not my native language): a loan.
"make hay with retail customers", do you mean that some pay more because there are so many having a loan for a california? Or do I not understand this properly?

 

[Wogga]

However, it's a different story when they put your car up for sale on their forecourt.

So true Borris “fitted with £5k worth of factory fitted options!” is a common note. Unfortunately Glasses guide does not cover the options when the salesman’s looks it up

 

[WelshGas]

did not know what PCP or simular was but now I understand (English is not my native language): a loan.
"make hay with retail customers", do you mean that some pay more because there are so many having a loan for a california? Or do I not understand this properly?

Many buyers of new vehicles aren’t concerned about the capital cost of a new vehicle, just;
What deposit is required? Normally about 5% or less.
Monthly repayments.

On a PCP you pay the deposit, and the monthly repayments, over 36 months.
At the end of the 3 yr PCP contract you can hand the vehicle back at no cost, provided you haven’t exceeded the contracted milage and there is no damage otherwise there is an additional payment.
Or, you make a “ Balloon Payment “ to purchase the vehicle outright. This payment can be around 50% or so of the purchase price.

 

[PaulMilton]

Whether you can afford it or not was not part of the question.

Is it not implicit when asking the question if something is too expensive?

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Many buyers of new vehicles aren’t concerned about the capital cost of a new vehicle, just;
What deposit is required? Normally about 5% or less.
Monthly repayments.

On a PCP you pay the deposit, and the monthly repayments, over 36 months.
At the end of the 3 yr PCP contract you can hand the vehicle back at no cost, provided you haven’t exceeded the contracted milage and there is no damage otherwise there is an additional payment.
Or, you make a “ Balloon Payment “ to purchase the vehicle outright. This payment can be around 50% or so of the purchase price.

Yes they are very expensive but for me it’s a lifestyle purchase and I hope to get at least 10 years of adventures out of it. Not even thinking of future value, probably give it to my kids rather than sell it

 

[Borris]

Is it not implicit when asking the question if something is too expensive?

No of course not. There are many things in life that are affordable and many that are not. However just because one can afford something doesn't make it value for money. My question was:
HAS A NEW CALI BECOME JUST TOO EXPENSIVE?
Maybe my question is open to misinterpretation but my aim was to elicit member's views on the cost of a new Cali rather than to ascertain whether people could afford one or not. Someone might not be able to to afford to buy one but may consider it to be a fair price for what it is. On the other hand you might be in the fortunate position to be able to pay cash but think that they aren't good value any more.

 

[pjm-84]

Is it not implicit when asking the question if something is too expensive?

Not really. I suppose we each put a value on items. I think Spotify is too expensive but would have no concern spending £6k on a bicycle. Another one to add to the collection.

 

[Meoncoast]

[

HAS A NEW CALI BECOME JUST TOO EXPENSIVE?

I feel I am more likely to hold on to our T6 until replacement due to ongoing cost forces my need to replace it - the issue is the longer I leave it the closer to the demise of the combustion engine is. I can afford to replace it now but as my current van is fully functioning and meets our needs why payout now. Our T6 remains fit for purpose.

 

[sidepod]

Like the majority of new vehicles, new Californias are ridiculously overpriced these days

But if VW aren’t allowed to make a profit then you wouldn’t be able to buy such a high quality product as the Cali.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Like the majority of new vehicles, new Californias are ridiculously overpriced these days

The year I was born (ahem... 1959 ) the Mini was launched, starting price £497. That was just over a year's average salary at that time. Today, a BMW Mini starts at £15,544 which is about 7 months' average salary.

When compared to other things you could buy, a 2020 Mini (£15,544) is admittedly one-third more expensive than that 1959 Mini would be at current CPI prices (about £11,600). But it's easily more than a third more complex than the Issigonis Mini and hardly a comparable product functionally.

So no, I wouldn't agree than vehicles generally are overpriced, versus other things and certainly not on affordability. However it would be interesting to compare the price of a VW/Westy 'Camping Box' van in the 1950s or 60s against a typical family car in the same period. Anyone have any price figures for the early Westies?

 

[sidepod]

If you have to ask the price then you can’t afford it

 

[Karlos]

The year I was born (ahem... 1959 ) the Mini was launched, starting price £497. That was just over a year's average salary at that time. Today, a BMW Mini starts at £15,544 which is about 7 months' average salary.

When compared to other things you could buy, a 2020 Mini (£15,544) is admittedly one-third more expensive than that 1959 Mini would be at current CPI prices (about £11,600). But it's easily more than a third more complex than the Issigonis Mini and hardly a comparable product functionally.

So no, I wouldn't agree than vehicles generally are overpriced, versus other things and certainly not on affordability. However it would be interesting to compare the price of a VW/Westy 'Camping Box' van in the 1950s or 60s against a typical family car in the same period. Anyone have any price figures for the early Westies?

£915 in 1962 when I was still a twinkle.

 

[PaulMilton]

No of course not. There are many things in life that are affordable and many that are not. However just because one can afford something doesn't make it value for money. My question was:
HAS A NEW CALI BECOME JUST TOO EXPENSIVE?
Maybe my question is open to misinterpretation but my aim was to elicit member's views on the cost of a new Cali rather than to ascertain whether people could afford one or not. Someone might not be able to to afford to buy one but may consider it to be a fair price for what it is. On the other hand you might be in the fortunate position to be able to pay cash but think that they aren't good value any more.

I have to say I can’t workout if they are good value anymore. I suppose I don’t begrudge what I paid for ours because we’ve had so much fun with it but I won’t know what the residuals are till I sell it. The new price being high can’t do you and I any harm when we do come to sell though!

 

[calibusje]

No of course not. There are many things in life that are affordable and many that are not. However just because one can afford something doesn't make it value for money. My question was:
HAS A NEW CALI BECOME JUST TOO EXPENSIVE?
Maybe my question is open to misinterpretation but my aim was to elicit member's views on the cost of a new Cali rather than to ascertain whether people could afford one or not. Someone might not be able to to afford to buy one but may consider it to be a fair price for what it is. On the other hand you might be in the fortunate position to be able to pay cash but think that they aren't good value any more.

well, it is in any case a question that brought a lot of enthusiasm and I have given my answer, completely my own opinion but each his idea about it. Have you read it?
My answer in summary: not everyone buys a fully packed california and then a new T6.1 coast is even cheaper than a second hand T6, so - for me anyway - a new one is not too expensive. By the way, was the T5, T5.1 and T6 not expensive in their time? Just look at how much a mulitvan costs and then compare with the price when he has become a camper. They are almost by hand transformed from van to campervan in the california hall and this is costly. But as said: each has his/her own opinion about it.
There could be one more question: is the second-hand California overpriced?

Greetings and hope to see a lot off you at a meet or something

 

[Karlos]

I have to say I can’t workout if they are good value anymore. I suppose I don’t begrudge what I paid for ours because we’ve had so much fun with it but I won’t know what the residuals are till I sell it. The new price being high can’t do you and I any harm when we do come to sell though!

Re resale, that all depends on how many people are trying to unload them and how many people are looking to buy and the state of the economy in these uncertain times but if your in it for the long run 5 years plus it should pan out.

 

[Erbster]

I miss my old T4 Bilbo!...Ok it wasn't as fast or cool (aircon wise) as my T5.1 but it did have character, very easy to fix, internal furniture survived the test of time, fully insulated & and had no rust on its +20 year old 100% waterproof elevating roof.

Still find it strange that you need to cart a substantial separate mattress around in current Cali's in order to get a good nights sleep downstairs.

But despite the above still love my T5.1!

We had a T5 Bilbo’s. You are right about them BUT the roof doesn’t give as much space as a Cali, plus the Bilbo roof bed is not a bed, and it’s tiny. No regrets at all getting a Cali instead!


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[ArunAlec]

Could the fact that a majority of new vehicles nowadays are on PCP or similar?

Agreed and most advertising for new cars show the “monthly cost“ rather than the actual cost.

 

[Velma's Dad]

£915 in 1962 when I was still a twinkle.

Excellent! Thanks.

So... a decent VW-based campervan was roughly 1.8 times the price of a Mini in the early sixties. Today, a base level Coast is £55,339, which is 3.5 times the price of a modern edition Mini.