Toilets and portaloo's

[dayslikethis]

We are talking here about bog-in-the-bag and not popaloo.

Bog in bag is very compact, easy to set up, works, high running costs and I am researching ways to reduce that running cost.

OK, noted. I was talking about the Popaloo and Thetford a few posts up. Hope this clarifies.

 

[GrannyJen]

OK, noted. I was talking about the Popaloo and Thetford a few posts up. Hope this clarifies.

I just love threads that go off in different directions simultaneously

Apologies for getting it wrong

I really didn't intend it to go down the pan .....

ok, ok ... I'll get my coat ....

 

[dayslikethis]

What happens with the Thetford under sink solution at night when the cupboard is obstructed by the bed? Do you just get it out before getting the bed out, and presumably it fits ok in the space left?

Good question. It don't think it fits in the space with my set up ? so we either put it outside in the enclosed awning or have to push the seat back up. However if you sleep upstairs its not a problem.

 

[stephen watson]

An update on "indoor" facilities:

For two years I have been using a thetford 335. Sometimes the bulk space when carried inside the van has been an irritant. Thanks to my thetford being "borrowed" for one of my Grandchildren's use, I had to resort to a bog-in-a-bag for this weekend.

I have been quite surprised at how easy to use it is. The main use for me is both when travelling, especially in remote areas, and overnight when not wanting to pop out of the van.

To stop, erect the tripod "seat", pop in a bag, use, pop out the bag, is very easy, very quick.

Overnight to open it up, pop in a bag, and leave erected, just like the thetford it fits neatly at the end of the extended bed.

Disposing of the bags is easy. Just dispose as you would any other bag of general waste. Do avoid the temptation to recycle

So, big drawback, price of the bags. I used my vast stock of popaloo bags, which when bought from the club shop in bulk, work out at just under £1 a bag. Bog-in-a-bag bags can be bought for a similar price on Amazon if buying in quantities of 25. Therefore the cost factor per use is a lot lot higher than a 335.

so, to summarise:

Pro's: Cheaper initial outlay, Massive space saving, easy to use, convenient disposal of waste or storage until convenient.

Cons: Cost of bags. I estimated that the price difference between b-i-a-b and a 335 initially is about £60 which at £1 a bag is soon made up.

Further research: As a granny I am of course familiar with the efficiency of disposable nappies. So my next line of research will be: Take a bag, replace absorbent granules with disposable nappy, use cheaper "bin liner" bags of suitable strength, insert nappy into bag, use, dispose. I can see an immediate drawback i just the size of bags of nappies but hey-ho, nuclear fission wasn't discovered in a day!

I expect to be publishing my research paper on this line around 07/2016.

Hi GrannyJen
I'm trying to decide what toilet to buy for when I get a Cali next year and was wondering when you were going to be publishing your research paper? Perhaps it was in "Nature" and I missed it. I've found what you've written so far very useful but still can't make up my mind. It would be more for occasional/emergency use and I had originally been thinking of the bog in a bag, but then wondered about the pop a loo as it seems easy to store. It also seems expensive for what it is and probably less convenient to use. I know the 335 takes up more space but now I'm coming around to that, possibly using it with a bag for occasional use. Aside from the space it takes up (and the initial cost which I'm happy to pay) it seems the most versatile option and comfortable. I wondered if you'd had any further thoughts on the subject? If you were to start again and just had one loo I wonder what you would buy? (It seems a bit presumptuous to to be asking someone I don't know for such advice, but I guess that's the nature of forums!)

 

[GrannyJen]

Hi GrannyJen
I'm trying to decide what toilet to buy for when I get a Cali next year and was wondering when you were going to be publishing your research paper? Perhaps it was in "Nature" and I missed it. I've found what you've written so far very useful but still can't make up my mind. It would be more for occasional/emergency use and I had originally been thinking of the bog in a bag, but then wondered about the pop a loo as it seems easy to store. It also seems expensive for what it is and probably less convenient to use. I know the 335 takes up more space but now I'm coming around to that, possibly using it with a bag for occasional use. Aside from the space it takes up (and the initial cost which I'm happy to pay) it seems the most versatile option and comfortable. I wondered if you'd had any further thoughts on the subject? If you were to start again and just had one loo I wonder what you would buy? (It seems a bit presumptuous to to be asking someone I don't know for such advice, but I guess that's the nature of forums!)

Firstly, as a matter of relevance, toilet paper is more important than research paper

Research papers I have written many, bog paper I have been short of many times and can testify that in most real world episodes bog paper is far more important than research paper, although it must be said that many would consider my research papers to fulfil a dual role.

The Thetford 335 portaloo is a perfect fit for a Cali. It nestles comfortably between lower bed laid flat and passenger seat. It is fairly stable in travel when kept in the accommodation area. With the rear bed board on it's highest level it fits in snugly in the boot of an SE/ocean.

However it is bulky, gets in the way and when in the wilds and wild camping it can be problematic to dispose of contents.It can also, with both tanks near full, be very heavy to move around.

The pop-a -loo is a non-starter. It has to be erected outside, takes time to put up, allegedly takes 500 times more to take down, and for me is not compatible with a "park up tonight - move on tomorrow" lifestyle.

The bog-in-a-bag is, comparatively, hugely space-economical . Basically it is a foldable tripod seat with a removable centre-piece that then accommodates a poly bag in the void, the poly bags, partially filled with absorbent crystal, taking up minimal room in a pre-use storage state.

For me, someone who frequently collects my dog waste in a poly bag, who has existed outdoors in most unprim and unproper circumstances, collecting my own waste in a poly bag is not problematic. However for many it seems that the simple function of tying a knot in ones own bagged waste is a step too far, and therefore in those circumstances the portaloo is indispensable.

Given that personal attitude towards collecting personal waste in an easily sealed and leakproof container is not a problem then certainly a bog-in-a-bag concept is both space-saving and adds an element of extra flexibility in both storage and disposal of human waste product.

Therefore we now approach the subject spectrum of economics, hygiene and practicality.

Economically BIAB, to use my newly-invented acronym, is expensive. The tripod seat is £20 and infinitely durable but the disposable bags are uneconomic and unjustifiable financially, Many consider the replacement cost of proprietary bags to be what is technically known as a rip-off.

Whilst the problem of alternative sourcing of a collecting bag is easily overcome with many economical and eco-friendly alternatives being available, the same cannot be said of the absorbency material. However after limited testing of a range of disposable absorbency materials what I can say is:

Cat litter fails miserably. Just talk to my neighbourhood cats. Absorbency is pathetic, odour control miserable, weight when used almost beyond the limits of an all-bio bag and horribly heavy to carry even in unused state.

The daily mail, whilst often taking the P*** out of everyone, is useless at absorbing it:

Various forms of "super absorbent" kitchen roll are great at mopping up wine stains off the carpet but fairly useless at mopping up other forms of droplets that one would wish not even to arrive on the carpet.

Disposable absorbent hygiene products all have shortcomings: For me the Damascene moment came when I switched from disposable nappies to more eco-friendly reusable nappies with compostable liners. (For my grandchildren, not for me)...

Disposable, eco-friendly, compostable and hugely absorbent liners are a far more economical alternative to powder-based pre-loaded bags (less than 50% of cost) but have just one negative: The size of the liner. However being lightweight a standard pack of 32 can be carried on top of almost anything and for the purpose intended are durable enough to be squashed and crushed into the tiniest of spaces.

In terms of emergency application: Pre-planning is essential. On long journeys the convenience of a 335 is great. Pull in, get in the back, lift the lid, fulfil the necessity of the moment, carry on driving.

With BIAB preplanning is essential: Ensure sufficient quantities of liners and bags are in strategic reach, for me ideally that is on the back of the base support of the passenger seat. Ensure the velcro tabs of the bag enclosure for the seat are undone. Reaction times in those circumstances for practical purposes can almost equal those of utilisation of a 335.

For overnight comfort the same applies. The BIAB is unfolded and placed in strategic position, the bags and absorbing material resting on the base of the passenger seat.

In terms of hygiene: I see no greater problem to my waste products being carried slopping around in a formaldehyde chemical weapons chamber then being captured in an inert, eco-friendly substance that can be double-wrapped in extreme situations and with both hands and wrapping then wiped with a disposable and eco-friendly anti-bacterial wet wipe.

The BIAB, when in use, is less stable, so more care must be taken not to tip tripod over spilling contents everywhere, It goes without saying that this caution is especially prudent when using the BIAB after consumption of some fluids that also have a diuretic effect. Situations of potentially urgent and clumsy application need extra care.

In summary: The BIAB is cheaper in terms of capital outlay, offers more in flexibility of disposal of waste material, needs more planning on application, is fundamentally more space efficient but requires in some individual cases adaptation of personal preferences towards bodily functional issues.

It will be, after the current year of testing, my preferred method.


Presented by:

Dr J Brown - 12/2016 - Currently Abbeville, France but tomorrow wherever my Albert and my Loo take me.

 

[Trailertrash]

We have a Qube335 and it is gorgeous. People in Penarth are too posh to have toilets and a man comes around once a week with an extractor but he would not travel so it was the gorgeous Qube335 for us.

 

[WelshGas]

We have a Qube335 and it is gorgeous. People in Penarth are too posh to have toilets and a man comes around once a week with an extractor but he would not travel so it was the gorgeous Qube335 for us.

Never heard a chemical toilet described as " Gorgeous ", but then that's Penarth for you.

 

[thehorse]

Out of interest, what is the capacity of the 335? How many No.1s and No.2s can it "swallow".

 

[GrannyJen]

Out of interest, what is the capacity of the 335? How many No.1s and No.2s can it "swallow".

I have never measured in "numbers of deposits". That must vary individual to individual, diet to diet. I drink a lot of water and get rid of more than most. In my experience, totally dependent on the 335, after two days with no emptying opportunities then I would be getting worried.

 

[stephen watson]

Firstly, as a matter of relevance, toilet paper is more important than research paper

Research papers I have written many, bog paper I have been short of many times and can testify that in most real world episodes bog paper is far more important than research paper, although it must be said that many would consider my research papers to fulfil a dual role.

The Thetford 335 portaloo is a perfect fit for a Cali. It nestles comfortably between lower bed laid flat and passenger seat. It is fairly stable in travel when kept in the accommodation area. With the rear bed board on it's highest level it fits in snugly in the boot of an SE/ocean.

However it is bulky, gets in the way and when in the wilds and wild camping it can be problematic to dispose of contents.It can also, with both tanks near full, be very heavy to move around.

The pop-a -loo is a non-starter. It has to be erected outside, takes time to put up, allegedly takes 500 times more to take down, and for me is not compatible with a "park up tonight - move on tomorrow" lifestyle.

The bog-in-a-bag is, comparatively, hugely space-economical . Basically it is a foldable tripod seat with a removable centre-piece that then accommodates a poly bag in the void, the poly bags, partially filled with absorbent crystal, taking up minimal room in a pre-use storage state.

For me, someone who frequently collects my dog waste in a poly bag, who has existed outdoors in most unprim and unproper circumstances, collecting my own waste in a poly bag is not problematic. However for many it seems that the simple function of tying a knot in ones own bagged waste is a step too far, and therefore in those circumstances the portaloo is indispensable.

Given that personal attitude towards collecting personal waste in an easily sealed and leakproof container is not a problem then certainly a bog-in-a-bag concept is both space-saving and adds an element of extra flexibility in both storage and disposal of human waste product.

Therefore we now approach the subject spectrum of economics, hygiene and practicality.

Economically BIAB, to use my newly-invented acronym, is expensive. The tripod seat is £20 and infinitely durable but the disposable bags are uneconomic and unjustifiable financially, Many consider the replacement cost of proprietary bags to be what is technically known as a rip-off.

Whilst the problem of alternative sourcing of a collecting bag is easily overcome with many economical and eco-friendly alternatives being available, the same cannot be said of the absorbency material. However after limited testing of a range of disposable absorbency materials what I can say is:

Cat litter fails miserably. Just talk to my neighbourhood cats. Absorbency is pathetic, odour control miserable, weight when used almost beyond the limits of an all-bio bag and horribly heavy to carry even in unused state.

The daily mail, whilst often taking the P*** out of everyone, is useless at absorbing it:

Various forms of "super absorbent" kitchen roll are great at mopping up wine stains off the carpet but fairly useless at mopping up other forms of droplets that one would wish not even to arrive on the carpet.

Disposable absorbent hygiene products all have shortcomings: For me the Damascene moment came when I switched from disposable nappies to more eco-friendly reusable nappies with compostable liners. (For my grandchildren, not for me)...

Disposable, eco-friendly, compostable and hugely absorbent liners are a far more economical alternative to powder-based pre-loaded bags (less than 50% of cost) but have just one negative: The size of the liner. However being lightweight a standard pack of 32 can be carried on top of almost anything and for the purpose intended are durable enough to be squashed and crushed into the tiniest of spaces.

In terms of emergency application: Pre-planning is essential. On long journeys the convenience of a 335 is great. Pull in, get in the back, lift the lid, fulfil the necessity of the moment, carry on driving.

With BIAB preplanning is essential: Ensure sufficient quantities of liners and bags are in strategic reach, for me ideally that is on the back of the base support of the passenger seat. Ensure the velcro tabs of the bag enclosure for the seat are undone. Reaction times in those circumstances for practical purposes can almost equal those of utilisation of a 335.

For overnight comfort the same applies. The BIAB is unfolded and placed in strategic position, the bags and absorbing material resting on the base of the passenger seat.

In terms of hygiene: I see no greater problem to my waste products being carried slopping around in a formaldehyde chemical weapons chamber then being captured in an inert, eco-friendly substance that can be double-wrapped in extreme situations and with both hands and wrapping then wiped with a disposable and eco-friendly anti-bacterial wet wipe.

The BIAB, when in use, is less stable, so more care must be taken not to tip tripod over spilling contents everywhere, It goes without saying that this caution is especially prudent when using the BIAB after consumption of some fluids that also have a diuretic effect. Situations of potentially urgent and clumsy application need extra care.

In summary: The BIAB is cheaper in terms of capital outlay, offers more in flexibility of disposal of waste material, needs more planning on application, is fundamentally more space efficient but requires in some individual cases adaptation of personal preferences towards bodily functional issues.

It will be, after the current year of testing, my preferred method.


Presented by:

Dr J Brown - 12/2016 - Currently Abbeville, France but tomorrow wherever my Albert and my Loo take me.

Thank you Dr Brown,
As I suspected, like most Phd students you'd finished your research, but just needed a bit of encouragement to write it up. All very useful info, thanks. Will cross Popaloo off the list. Still unsure about BIAB or the "gorgeous" 335. Shame it's something you can't try before you buy. Might end up going for a hybrid 335 with bags for occasional number 2s. Also now think I won't rush into making a decision and will wait until I get my van.
Bon Voyage in France!
Stephen

 

[WelshGas]

I have never measured in "numbers of deposits". That must vary individual to individual, diet to diet. I drink a lot of water and get rid of more than most. In my experience, totally dependent on the 335, after two days with no emptying opportunities then I would be getting worried.

Wouldn't even consider carrying around a 335, in the kitchen cupboard, containing 1s & 2s looking for a Chemical Disposal Point. Have used the Popaloo, but a bit of a faff setting up and dismantling so have graduated to a BIAB with SWMBOs blessing.
Just use the Popaloo bags for convenience. For emergency/nighttime use only.

 

[Fast Freddie]

Firstly, as a matter of relevance, toilet paper is more important than research paper

Research papers I have written many, bog paper I have been short of many times and can testify that in most real world episodes bog paper is far more important than research paper, although it must be said that many would consider my research papers to fulfil a dual role.

The Thetford 335 portaloo is a perfect fit for a Cali. It nestles comfortably between lower bed laid flat and passenger seat. It is fairly stable in travel when kept in the accommodation area. With the rear bed board on it's highest level it fits in snugly in the boot of an SE/ocean.

However it is bulky, gets in the way and when in the wilds and wild camping it can be problematic to dispose of contents.It can also, with both tanks near full, be very heavy to move around.

The pop-a -loo is a non-starter. It has to be erected outside, takes time to put up, allegedly takes 500 times more to take down, and for me is not compatible with a "park up tonight - move on tomorrow" lifestyle.

The bog-in-a-bag is, comparatively, hugely space-economical . Basically it is a foldable tripod seat with a removable centre-piece that then accommodates a poly bag in the void, the poly bags, partially filled with absorbent crystal, taking up minimal room in a pre-use storage state.

For me, someone who frequently collects my dog waste in a poly bag, who has existed outdoors in most unprim and unproper circumstances, collecting my own waste in a poly bag is not problematic. However for many it seems that the simple function of tying a knot in ones own bagged waste is a step too far, and therefore in those circumstances the portaloo is indispensable.

Given that personal attitude towards collecting personal waste in an easily sealed and leakproof container is not a problem then certainly a bog-in-a-bag concept is both space-saving and adds an element of extra flexibility in both storage and disposal of human waste product.

Therefore we now approach the subject spectrum of economics, hygiene and practicality.

Economically BIAB, to use my newly-invented acronym, is expensive. The tripod seat is £20 and infinitely durable but the disposable bags are uneconomic and unjustifiable financially, Many consider the replacement cost of proprietary bags to be what is technically known as a rip-off.

Whilst the problem of alternative sourcing of a collecting bag is easily overcome with many economical and eco-friendly alternatives being available, the same cannot be said of the absorbency material. However after limited testing of a range of disposable absorbency materials what I can say is:

Cat litter fails miserably. Just talk to my neighbourhood cats. Absorbency is pathetic, odour control miserable, weight when used almost beyond the limits of an all-bio bag and horribly heavy to carry even in unused state.

The daily mail, whilst often taking the P*** out of everyone, is useless at absorbing it:

Various forms of "super absorbent" kitchen roll are great at mopping up wine stains off the carpet but fairly useless at mopping up other forms of droplets that one would wish not even to arrive on the carpet.

Disposable absorbent hygiene products all have shortcomings: For me the Damascene moment came when I switched from disposable nappies to more eco-friendly reusable nappies with compostable liners. (For my grandchildren, not for me)...

Disposable, eco-friendly, compostable and hugely absorbent liners are a far more economical alternative to powder-based pre-loaded bags (less than 50% of cost) but have just one negative: The size of the liner. However being lightweight a standard pack of 32 can be carried on top of almost anything and for the purpose intended are durable enough to be squashed and crushed into the tiniest of spaces.

In terms of emergency application: Pre-planning is essential. On long journeys the convenience of a 335 is great. Pull in, get in the back, lift the lid, fulfil the necessity of the moment, carry on driving.

With BIAB preplanning is essential: Ensure sufficient quantities of liners and bags are in strategic reach, for me ideally that is on the back of the base support of the passenger seat. Ensure the velcro tabs of the bag enclosure for the seat are undone. Reaction times in those circumstances for practical purposes can almost equal those of utilisation of a 335.

For overnight comfort the same applies. The BIAB is unfolded and placed in strategic position, the bags and absorbing material resting on the base of the passenger seat.

In terms of hygiene: I see no greater problem to my waste products being carried slopping around in a formaldehyde chemical weapons chamber then being captured in an inert, eco-friendly substance that can be double-wrapped in extreme situations and with both hands and wrapping then wiped with a disposable and eco-friendly anti-bacterial wet wipe.

The BIAB, when in use, is less stable, so more care must be taken not to tip tripod over spilling contents everywhere, It goes without saying that this caution is especially prudent when using the BIAB after consumption of some fluids that also have a diuretic effect. Situations of potentially urgent and clumsy application need extra care.

In summary: The BIAB is cheaper in terms of capital outlay, offers more in flexibility of disposal of waste material, needs more planning on application, is fundamentally more space efficient but requires in some individual cases adaptation of personal preferences towards bodily functional issues.

It will be, after the current year of testing, my preferred method.


Presented by:

Dr J Brown - 12/2016 - Currently Abbeville, France but tomorrow wherever my Albert and my Loo take me.

As always Granny Jen your insights are truly magical and useful. Many thanks - keep them coming!

 

[Velma's Dad]

Awesome post GJ and I'm sure of great use to Cali first-timers (and maybe a lot of the rest of us too).

I'm personally very happy with the Thetford 335 which lives in the back of the van while travelling. But it really must depend a lot on your mode of Cali'ing, types of campsite (or not) you most often use, etc.

When Cali'ing alone - which I do every month or so, on work duties - I have to confess I usually just make sure I'm parked up for the night near a hedge. There, I've said it, I'm not proud of it. Although it is usually on private farmland.

 

[stephen watson]

Wouldn't even consider carrying around a 335, in the kitchen cupboard, containing 1s & 2s looking for a Chemical Disposal Point. Have used the Popaloo, but a bit of a faff setting up and dismantling so have graduated to a BIAB with SWMBOs blessing.
Just use the Popaloo bags for convenience. For emergency/nighttime use only.

SWMBO ?

 

[T6 CFO]

She Who Must Be Obeyed


Mike

 

[stephen watson]

Ah. I've got one of those too..

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

 

[GrannyJen]

Ah. I've got one of those too..

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

An essential in any well-balanced household

 

[larrylamb]

When Cali'ing alone - which I do every month or so, on work duties - I have to confess I usually just make sure I'm parked up for the night near a hedge. There, I've said it, I'm not proud of it. Although it is usually on private farmland.

Stayed at a CC site in September, next to a caravan and near the toilet block, went outside to the back of the Cali for something about 9pm and there was the chap from the caravan spraying the hedge not a care in the world. Awkward.

 

[Borris]

Stayed at a CC site in September, next to a caravan and near the toilet block, went outside to the back of the Cali for something about 9pm and there was the chap from the caravan spraying the hedge not a care in the world. Awkward.

He was just marking his territory. CC members like to keep themselves to themselves.

 

[Dedee]

Thank you Dr Brown,
As I suspected, like most Phd students you'd finished your research, but just needed a bit of encouragement to write it up. All very useful info, thanks. Will cross Popaloo off the list. Still unsure about BIAB or the "gorgeous" 335. Shame it's something you can't try before you buy. Might end up going for a hybrid 335 with bags for occasional number 2s. Also now think I won't rush into making a decision and will wait until I get my van.
Bon Voyage in France!
Stephen

HI Stephen interested in your thoughts on the toilet for the Cali now that you have had some time and use. Just about to take possession of mine and interested in your thoughts. thanks

 

[Loz]

I see this topic has bobbed back up again

 

[Skinnee D]

I see this topic has bobbed back up again

Bobbing like a floater

 

[BillyCasper]

I wonder if a Disposa John bag would fit in BIAB frame? The bags can be had cheap on EBay. Military surplus or something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GrannyJen]

I wonder if a Disposa John bag would fit in BIAB frame? The bags can be had cheap on EBay. Military surplus or something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I have used similar,

they can fit at a stretch or be placed in one of the bio - compostable bags that I referenced in my post above. The cheapest cost that I have seen is 34p per unit, a lot cheaper than the BiaB replacements but a little more expensive than the disposable liners I currently use.

 

[stephen watson]

HI Stephen interested in your thoughts on the toilet for the Cali now that you have had some time and use. Just about to take possession of mine and interested in your thoughts. thanks

Hi
I don't get my Cali until Feb, so no practical experience I'm afraid. I have however bought a Bog in A Bag with some spare bags. GrannyJen has been my main source of wisdom and guidance. My thinking has been it will mainly be for occasional and emergency use (use normal loos whenever possible), so this seems the least space/cheapest option. If we end up doing longer trips and need a van loo a lot I may end up getting a 335 - it looks the more comfortable option to me. If that is the case I think I would try a "hybrid" solution of using disposable liner bags first in the 335, for occasional use, first.
I haven't used the bog in a bag yet but do have a slight worry. The hole you are sitting on seems very small and if you are doing a number 2 I hope that it will also catch a simultaneous number 1. A little fountain in front of you wouldn't be very elegant. No doubt a gentleman with some experience may be able to let us know!
Sounds like we're going to get our vans around the same time - 1st Feb for me. Been rather worried about the roof corrosion issue in T6s but decided to go ahead and hope VW come up with a permenant fix before my guarantee runs out.