AT tyres for 4Motion

[B J G]

5 minute German T6 Off Road demo. Would you have the courage to do this with yours?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=13BccoLo4Xs

 

[T6 CFO]

Deleted

 

[WelshGas]

5 minute German T6 Off Road demo. Would you have the courage to do this with yours?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=13BccoLo4Xs

I prefer this one - more real life - and a bog standard 4Motion.

 

[zeratul]

Wow great. Especially given that we're off to Morocco in 4 days

 

[zeratul]

Because we're going to Iceland in summer and our Cali has +3cm suspension (vb air, can do +9cm in total) I was now looking at A/T tyre change
I asked our tyre center for advice.

I could go Michelin Latitude cross in the default tyre size 235/55R17 for EUR 682. But my current (default Cali) tyres still have 8mm.. And storing without alloys for years is not the easiest thing.

I could also go steel alloys (third set, after winter set and summer set) + BF Goodrich A/T KO2 in 225/60R17. Price would be the same, but the alloys are like EUR 460.

This is not a size Seikel recommends... and it's slightly larger than the defaults. (+3.4% so outside spec..) But I guess they should fit without any steering stop limit change (which they have to do from 235/65R17, a +4.7%)
Thoughts?

 

[Loz]

Because we're going to Iceland in summer and our Cali has +3cm suspension (vb air, can do +9cm in total) I was now looking at A/T tyre change
I asked our tyre center for advice.

I could go Michelin Latitude cross in the default tyre size 235/55R17 for EUR 682. But my current (default Cali) tyres still have 8mm.. And storing without alloys for years is not the easiest thing.

I could also go steel alloys (third set, after winter set and summer set) + BF Goodrich A/T KO2 in 225/60R17. Price would be the same, but the alloys are like EUR 460.

This is not a size Seikel recommends... and it's slightly larger than the defaults. (+3.4% so outside spec..) But I guess they should fit without any steering stop limit change (which they have to do from 235/65R17, a +4.7%)
Thoughts?

I have just purchased the Michelin Lat-X on steels, but I think the BFG's will be fine as long as you are happy with the slower speed rating.
I assume you have seen this Seikel doc?

 

[bvddobb]

This is not a size Seikel recommends... and it's slightly larger than the defaults. (+3.4% so outside spec..) But I guess they should fit without any steering stop limit change (which they have to do from 235/65R17, a +4.7%)
Thoughts?

Why not simply go for a size within the range? The Latitude Cross come in many sizes, there must be one within range for you. We took the largest ones within range for our Cali, and they are great, why go outside? With too large wheels, also your gears are relatively 'long', you don't want that in difficult driving circumstances.

 

[zeratul]

Why not simply go for a size within the range? The Latitude Cross come in many sizes, there must be one within range for you. We took the largest ones within range for our Cali, and they are great, why go outside? With too large wheels, also your gears are relatively 'long', you don't want that in difficult driving circumstances.

Latitude Cross is the only tyre that has some off-road capabilities that fits the Cali's load rating and is within the +1.5%/-2% max spec. At least for those with 17 inch wheels, which is all 4 MOTIONS from T5.2 onward.

So the only option to go for real A/T tyres is to go slightly larger.
That being said, even for Michelin Latitude cross, which comes in the default 235/55R17 with the required load rating, Seikel goes bigger in the cruiser package: 235/65 R17 108H Michelin Latitude Cross
Every extra cm clearance helps as well the 108 load rating which probably means they're more durable than the default size which is only 103.

Loz, what size Latitude Cross did you fit? And why did you go for steel, for extra durability off-road? Or are you, like me, considering a third set (winter, summer, off-road)...?

 

[Loz]

Loz, what size Latitude Cross did you fit? And why did you go for steel, for extra durability off-road? Or are you, like me, considering a third set (winter, summer, off-road)...?

matching standard 235/55/17 I got steels for off road/overlanding.
I had 3 sets for the Touareg but just sticking with 2 sets for the moment.

 

[bvddobb]

Every extra cm clearance helps as well the 108 load rating which probably means they're more durable than the default size which is only 103.

Our winters have a load rating of 109, we find them uncomfortable. Our Latitudes have 103, which is quite sufficient. AND they are not too big (think about legal, speedometer, ESP functioning, gearbox...). You can do with the 1 cm less clearance... Our € 0.02 ....

 

[zeratul]

Legal is not an issue, Seikel has homologation and approval from VW. Speedometer is exact after the increased circumference instead of off by 2-5% I read here. Gearbox apparently can handle it (VW approves it for Seikel on the cruiser package without gearbox adjustments).

If I go Latitude cross I will probably stick with standard size because of the spare wheel. But it's not a real off road tire, it's just a compromise between road and off road.
I intend to keep my road tyres anyway .. they have 8mm left.
So I'll have three sets any way, at least for a while...

Going larger, for me, is not about clearance but just a necessity - there are no off road tyres 235/55R17 103+ load on the market (except for the Latitude Cross which is a hybrid)

 

[BogdanViziteu]

what about using normal tires and have a pair of snow/offroad chains. if you get stuck you just put the chains and move on...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zeratul]

I guess that could work for mud, but Icelandic rocks and river crossings...
I do have those expensive chains for the 235/55R17 tyre size though (Maggi Group Trak 4X4 SUV 46).. they cost almost as much as new tyres. But officially from VW no chains are allowed on this tyre size..

 

[bvddobb]

If I go Latitude cross I will probably stick with standard size because of the spare wheel. But it's not a real off road tire, it's just a compromise between road and off road.

Don't know what you mean by 'real' off road tyres. The Latitudes are an AT, and as any AT, they are a hybrid. Unless you mean e.g. MT tyres, but they all have terrible road capabilities, comparatively, so why would you want them? I guess you, like us, will be no more off road (which really means on dirt tracks, sand tracks, some rock, gravel tracks etc.) than 20-30% of the time. You're really better off with AT's, like the Latitudes, then. They coped very well with everything we came across in Iceland and on the Seikel course!

 

[kave]

Because we're going to Iceland in summer and our Cali has +3cm suspension (vb air, can do +9cm in total) I was now looking at A/T tyre change
I asked our tyre center for advice.

I could go Michelin Latitude cross in the default tyre size 235/55R17 for EUR 682. But my current (default Cali) tyres still have 8mm.. And storing without alloys for years is not the easiest thing.

I could also go steel alloys (third set, after winter set and summer set) + BF Goodrich A/T KO2 in 225/60R17. Price would be the same, but the alloys are like EUR 460.

This is not a size Seikel recommends... and it's slightly larger than the defaults. (+3.4% so outside spec..) But I guess they should fit without any steering stop limit change (which they have to do from 235/65R17, a +4.7%)
Thoughts?

Have you also fitted underside protection? Even though you will end up with 30cm ground clearance I know it is easy denting the sides and under it. Driving arround rocks you might hit one that stands up a bit more.
I would follow seikels advice re tires, they seem to know what they are doing.

 

[zeratul]

Don't know what you mean by 'real' off road tyres. The Latitudes are an AT, and as any AT, they are a hybrid. Unless you mean e.g. MT tyres, but they all have terrible road capabilities, comparatively, so why would you want them? I guess you, like us, will be no more off road (which really means on dirt tracks, sand tracks, some rock, gravel tracks etc.) than 20-30% of the time. You're really better off with AT's, like the Latitudes, then. They coped very well with everything we came across in Iceland and on the Seikel course!

Latitude cross is not a coarse profile. Michelin says it's suited for up to 40% off road. It's a decent allrounder, the perfect hybrid tyre. A BF Goodrich A/T will do a lot better on rocky roads and in river crossings. I don't want to get stuck.
Seikel is recommending Latitude Cross only for Cruiser package, for T5 extreme they also go BF Goodrich A/T.

For this trip to Iceland we'll have only the 1h30 trip to Rotterdam where the car will board the cargo vessel. We've done the ring road three times now, I'll avoid it wherever I can this time and take the scenic roads in the mainland and westfjords.

I know A/T tyres are less comfort on highways. In Morocco we saw Irish and Swedish Landrover defenders that drove all the way with A/T tyres, families with children. Cali will still be a lot more comfortable...

What makes the decision tough is that aluminium alloys are not the best choice for off-roading, and I already have two sets of those. So I'm inevitably going to a third set now (steel) and then a hybrid set doesn't really fit the picture as well as three sets (summer, winter, offroad), because after my summers wear out, I don't see why I would get new ones and I end up with unused alloys anyway. So I might as well sell them now.. but not easy to get a decent price.

And yes, my skid plates are on order. And I have the raised air intake.

 

[briwy]

We got a set of Goodyear Cargo Vectors for our Norway trip last year. Probably did about 200 miles on rough tracks, some very rough, and didn't have any problems. We will use the same ones for Iceland when we go and apart from fords I can't see that the roads will be any worse than what we encountered in Norway.
Personally I wouldn't look at anything with big chunky treads as they are so noisy and rough on tarmac which we will have plenty of as well to get to Iceland.

 

[Loz]

So I'm inevitably going to a third set now (steel) and then a hybrid set doesn't really fit the picture as well as three sets (summer, winter, offroad), because after my summers wear out, I don't see why I would get new ones and I end up with unused alloys anyway.

I just bought 5 of these; https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/steel-wheels-7jx17-et55-5x120-65-20127?car=9317 cheaper new than I could find second hand on Fleabay! and certified for our vehicle.

 

[bvddobb]

Latitude cross is not a coarse profile. A BF Goodrich A/T will do a lot better on rocky roads and in river crossings. I don't want to get stuck.
Seikel is recommending Latitude Cross only for Cruiser package, for T5 extreme they also go BF Goodrich A/T.

Well, for what it is worth: from our experience, our recommendation for Iceland with a Cali is that AT's are more than adequate, and the Latitudes with their course outsides do excellently, there. We discussed this with Peter Seikel before we went, and his advice was AT, and he even thought a second spare was overkill... .

See also his advice in this article: "Zudem sollten Reisende auf Island AT-Reifen wählen. [...] Ich plädiere für die AT-Bereifung, da ATs eine stabilere Karkasse haben".
And: "Nur ein Reserverad. Ich reise sehr viel und ich habe noch nie ein zweites Reserverad gebraucht. Das zweite wird hauptsächlich wegen der Optik ans Auto geschraubt. Aber das ist sehr viel Gewicht. Wenn die Bereifung gut ist, gibt es fast nie einen Plattfuß".
But you're making an informed choice, and that is good! . Do what makes you feel OK, Latitude or BFG, Geolandar, Nokian: they are all not bad choices! It's just that you seem to value the Latitudes lower than they are worth, and if they fit your sizing requirements better, than I wouldn't worry about them!

 

[zeratul]

Loz, thanks for the tip, great price and a lot cheaper than I was offered. Just discovered I can order 4 steel alloys + tyres (Latitude cross) there for EUR 805 Unfortunately they come unmounted.

Briwy, I obviously don't know what roads you encountered in Norway.. but Iceland can get really extreme with rivers and lava fields.. There are many roads that are impossible even for stock 4x4's. I have this great Iceland trackbook which lists very well what a 4x4 Cali with some modifications can do though and I want to try many of them. But interested to learn about Norways challenges.. been there twice, but I may have missed the fun parts.

bvddobb, I really do value the Latitude Cross and haven't ruled them out, I may eventually choose them. Esp. if I can sell my factory summer tyres.

 

[zeratul]

Finally decided and ordered (about time, our california is leaving for iceland in less than a month).
Latitude cross on my alu VW alloys. It's a compromise but I've now invested enough in this car (air sus, raised air intake, offroad tyres, ... )

 

[kave]

Good luck

 

[bvddobb]

Finally decided and ordered (about time, our california is leaving for iceland in less than a month).
Latitude cross on my alu VW alloys. It's a compromise but I've now invested enough in this car (air sus, raised air intake, offroad tyres, ... )

We had exactly that on our Iceland trip last year, worked like a charm!

 

[vwchile]

Finally decided and ordered (about time, our california is leaving for iceland in less than a month).
Latitude cross on my alu VW alloys. It's a compromise but I've now invested enough in this car (air sus, raised air intake, offroad tyres, ... )

Hi, how was your trip? I am looking for the same choice, Latitude Cross on my alu VW alloys.
What about the spare wheel? is it possible to use the bigger tire in the normal place for it or you use the normal tire as spare?

Kind regards,

Renato

 

[Loz]

We have just returned from driving some good tracks in the Alps and the MLCs were excellent! no cuts or damage and really quiet on the tarmac.