Increased Oil Consumption Problem (2010 T5 Cali 180 bhp)

[WelshGas]

The problem is the D cooler is still not in clear

Providing that is the cause.

In the VW TPI posted above there is no mention of replacing the EGR when fitting a replacement Short Block, or Base Engine, only the DPF.

 

[pjm-84]

Its ingested.

Diagnostic/Action Comments are advisory only and based on information received MILLERCARE SAMPLE ANALYSIS Oil Condition Mike Winn x Report Date: 08/09/2021 Analyst:

The viscosity is in grade. Wear Metal Analysis reveals high Aluminium consistent with the well known EGR cooler corrosion issue seen with some VW 2.0 TDI 180 HP CFCA engines.

 

[787driver]

So, million dollar/£6k question , engine replacement or not?

 

[pjm-84]

Yes. 6k is a bitter pill but LR replacement engines are around 18k (not sure that helps!) and

EGR valve simulator with blanking plates for VW T5 with 2.0 BiTDI CFCA engine

tafmet.pl

 

[pjm-84]

Providing that is the cause.

In the VW TPI posted above there is no mention of replacing the EGR when fitting a replacement Short Block, or Base Engine, only the DPF.

I have attached the fail criteria for oil, you will see that we condemn oil for aluminium at 30 ppm. At the rate your van was accumulating aluminium in the oil, it would have been in the region of 40 ppm when you had the EGR blanked. You should see much lower results going forward. This suggests that over the 9000 miles since the EGR blanking, you have accumulated 17 ppm aluminium in oil, a much more normal amount.

 

[WelshGas]

I have attached the fail criteria for oil, you will see that we condemn oil for aluminium at 30 ppm. At the rate your van was accumulating aluminium in the oil, it would have been in the region of 40 ppm when you had the EGR blanked. You should see much lower results going forward. This suggests that over the 9000 miles since the EGR blanking, you have accumulated 17 ppm aluminium in oil, a much more normal amount.

I refer you to the TPI , as above.

Don’t confuse problems with other CFCA engines, related to the EGR according to some Facebook posters, to the recognised problems with 2010/2012 CFCA engines.

 

[787driver]

LR?

 

[pjm-84]

Land Rover 3.0L V6 that spins bearing shells / snaps cranks due to oil starvation

 

[787driver]

I did a lot of research prior to my purchase. 2012 was considered a “safe” year. Looks like I was unlucky!
Ps anyone got £6k they don’t need?

 

[pjm-84]

Lol. I have a bit more than that but I cant give it to Landrover because they cant build my new Defender.

 

[pjm-84]

I refer you to the TPI , as above.

Don’t confuse problems with other CFCA engines, related to the EGR according to some Facebook posters, to the recognised problems with 2010/2012 CFCA engines.

Issue still apparent in later engines, and hit and miss as noted on here by VW Guru. The issue is caused by aluminium particles being ingested into the engine. As its ingested and not exhausted the reason for the highlighted passage was to note the lower intake of aluminium particles following the blanking of the EGR cooler (which has been through numerous iterations through its life cycle)

Millar limits 30ppm as safe. Mine is at 57 but this engine oil is on 12100miles (9000miles following blanking) as this is now my only car (bloody LR). The figures noted last time are higher for lower mileage. So in summary.

Ingestion of aluminium caused wear
At 5000 on the previous oil my aluminium content was 70
At 12100 miles on this oil my aluminium content is 57 (noting the breakdown pre and post blanking)

Basically I need the oil changed.

 

[2into1]

I'm sure those that regularly comment "it only impacts a handful of engines" will be along to contribute to a gofundme effort. (not). Similarly those that that say its only the 2010/11 engines that fail.

Your engine will have been damaged by the disintegration of the previous egr/cooler. 180s that are driven hard and tow (causing higher loads and cooler temps) seem to be the worst effected, but it isn't an exact science.

 

[pjm-84]

Here a response from Millers that I received today for mine. It may be beneficial for some background.

Hi Paul

Thanks for that information as I was a little confused too!

Your previous report showed an aluminium level of 70 ppm after 5337 miles, it is reasonable to assume that the contaminants build linearly with mileage, so with your latest sample, I would have expected around 160 ppm. (70/5337 x 12100) So the 57 ppm was confusing as it is lower than expected, these issues never get better on their own, the EGR blanking explains things.

I have attached the fail criteria for oil, you will see that we condemn oil for aluminium at 30 ppm. At the rate your van was accumulating aluminium in the oil, it would have been in the region of 40 ppm when you had the EGR blanked. You should see much lower results going forward. This suggests that over the 9000 miles since the EGR blanking, you have accumulated 17 ppm aluminium in oil, a much more normal amount.

I hope this has resolved your confusion.

Ignore as I've just realised I've missed an oil service. Only 6300miles on this oil and blanking occured after an 1000miles or so, therefore head scrathing at the moment.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm sure those that regularly comment "it only impacts a handful of engines" will be along to contribute to a gofundme effort. (not). Similarly those that that say its only the 2010/11 engines that fail.

Your engine will have been damaged by the disintegration of the previous egr/cooler. 180s that are driven hard and tow (causing higher loads and cooler temps) seem to be the worst effected, but it isn't an exact science.

Not for a 2010/2012 engine - known problem as confirmed by VW. See TPI above.

 

[Vagophile]

I suppose the next question is “how much for a new engine?”

I feel for you.
Are you a D.I.Y er or would a replacement be a garage job?
Before I bought my Cali, being aware of the problem, I ran through the cost of a few replacement options, i.e. reconditioned or low mileage used engine and concluded that £6k would cover any replacement requirement.

 

[787driver]

Not a DIYer. I’ll look for a VW specialist in the Exeter area

 

[Perfectos]

Gutted for you.

to give you an indication of cost see link From one company

not good news but it’s a starting point for comparing cost via others

2.0 BiTDi Engines. What to know!

The idea of a 2.0 BiTDI Transporter or Amarok sounds great, and with quoted figures from the factory round the 180bhp mark, it sounds like the perfect platform to start with

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

 

[Perfectos]

For completeness and to assist others

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

www.hypermiler.co.uk

 

[Perfectos]

I have no experience of these companies and I am not recommending them in Anyway, but may be a cheaper option than a brand new engine = Recon

Reconditioned Engines | VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT | UK Engine Builder

Find quality engines for your Volkswagen, Audi, Škoda or SEAT. Expertly reconditioned, full warranty and delivered direct to you door by UK Engine Builder.

www.ukenginebuilder.com

edit

Reconditioned Car Engines for Sale in Manchester and London, UK - Engines UK

Are you looking for reconditioned engines for sale? Engines UK Provideall Car Engine Reconditioning Services. We offer reliable supply and fit services all across the UK.

www.enginesuk.co.uk

 

[Haves1979]

Really sorry to hear this. Based on the research I did the problem is pretty widespread. This came from both VW service and a local VW specialist.

How long have you owned the van? You still have come back with a private sale if you can demonstrate the issue was present at the time of purchase and you were not made aware. Millers will give you an indication of this.

Even if you are struggling my way of evidence, I would get in touch with the previous owner and see if they are prepared to contribute. You are facing a significant bill, if I was the seller, I would be shocked if that had been my van.

 

[787driver]

The owner had no issues prior to the sale and had it maintained meticulously.

 

[AlanC]

I had a new base engine fitted back in 2016 by my local VWCV dealer because of the EGR corrosion issue. The total cost then was £6450.00 and the engine was supplied to the dealer direct from the factory.

Not everything was included although EGR and DPF were.
The original turbos were transferred, as was the cambelt and water pump (these and been replaced only a few months before so were considered new enough) plus of course all the ancillary kit such as air-con pump, alternator etc. However, on testing it the tech decided the water pump did need replacing as it seemed slightly too worn for a new unit only a few months old. This water pump was replaced but not charged.

As the engine was an exchange unit £1100.00 was credited and the old engine returned to Germany.

One small issue, if you do decide to go down the VW dealer route, they will likely insist on having an oil consumption test done first. This involves draining and refilling the sump with a known weight of oil. You then have to drive for appx 620mls (1000 Kms) and return the van to the dealer. They will then drain the oil and weigh it. Only once this is done and the oil consumption hits a certain value will they agree to fit a new engine.

Having said all of that my new engine does not consume any oil between services, although I did have the service period changed to annual.

Alan

 

[AlanC]

The owner had no issues prior to the sale and had it maintained meticulously.

Did that owner have the new EGR fitted?

Alan

 

[Haves1979]

The owner had no issues prior to the sale and had it maintained meticulously.

It appears meticulous maintenance is not sufficient, maybe unless you change the oil way in excess of the suggested intervals. Are you taking the owners word at he had no issues and have you been in touch to sound him out since the problem occured?

As has been mentioned, I would explore what work has been done , speak to garages that have worked on it and try to understand why the new EGR was fitted.

I'm not pointing the finger at all, but there are many unscrupulous people out there. I've been bitten several times myself.. eg a 'mint' Exige that had a falsified service record.

 

[787driver]

Yes. He had the EGR fitted on the advice of his VW specialist. I’ve spoken to the specialist today and he too confirmed that if anything needed doing the owner always had it done without question. There were no oil consumption issues previously recorded. They have only just started to appear.