Increased Oil Consumption Problem (2010 T5 Cali 180 bhp)

[AlanC]

The distance you need to travel is 1000kms (621mls) for the oil consumption test specified by VW.
The weighed oil has to be done by the dealer so if this is the test you asked for, I am surprised your dealer did not know about it.

Alan

 

[veg_frenzy]

The distance you need to travel is 1000kms (621mls) for the oil consumption test specified by VW.
The weighed oil has to be done by the dealer so if this is the test you asked for, I am surprised your dealer did not know about it.

Alan

Apologies for confusion...they did understand consumption test, they didn't know about metals test.

 

[bh-15]

Should I change the original EGR on a 2010 build california with 22k from new, I intend to keep the van for a long time. I've been quoted £1200 plus VAT
I've owned from new & no oil issues to date, just the roof which I've been waiting 3 years plus for vw to repair.

 

[BerndRos]

Should I change the original EGR on a 2010 build california with 22k from new, I intend to keep the van for a long time. I've been quoted £1200 plus VAT
I've owned from new & no oil issues to date, just the roof which I've been waiting 3 years plus for vw to repair.

If it were me, I would. Low mikes and you want to keep.

 

[WelshGas]

Should I change the original EGR on a 2010 build california with 22k from new, I intend to keep the van for a long time. I've been quoted £1200 plus VAT
I've owned from new & no oil issues to date, just the roof which I've been waiting 3 years plus for vw to repair.

Firstly, it is only the 180 biturbo that has this problem. Also the % affected, well no one knows but from my observations a small percentage 10 - 20% maximum.
The problem seems to appear post 60,000 + miles.
At your current mileage 12 - 15 years.

Only you can make the call.

 

[AlanC]

Should I change the original EGR on a 2010 build california with 22k from new, I intend to keep the van for a long time. I've been quoted £1200 plus VAT
I've owned from new & no oil issues to date, just the roof which I've been waiting 3 years plus for vw to repair.

I would.

At that mileage your 2010 should be performing well. The oil consumption issue kicks in usually after 45-50K mls (ours went at 86K mls) so changing the EGR for a D suffix one will hopefully prevent further problems.

No one will be able to say for certain though. The dealer will probably tell you there is no need. But if you are happy to spend the money and would feel more confident about your van, then do so.

Alan

 

[2into1]

Should I change the original EGR on a 2010 build california with 22k from new, I intend to keep the van for a long time. I've been quoted £1200 plus VAT
I've owned from new & no oil issues to date, just the roof which I've been waiting 3 years plus for vw to repair.

I would (too). Even if your engine went on to develop the fault and need replacing, it is unlikely VW will help, so you will need to buy a version D part (as well as the short engine). Buying it now would mean you don't need to (possibly) buy it later. The only risk to this plan is if the D suffix eventually turns out to be failing too.

Keep all your documentation for the change, and I'd document every drop of oil you put in it, with a view to eventual resale.

 

[bh-15]

Like many of us I spent a long time in specifying my california to make it my perfect van - 4 motion, quilted leather etc. And then now to worry that the engine may fail at 50k miles is very disappointing (my A8 which I have had for 18 years has just done 221k)
Although the van has only done 22k most have been driving in France with my family of 4 & I have spent many nights sleeping in it.
I feel inclined to spend the money now and replace the EGR to a version D even if it just gives me me peace of mind. The new EGR will have a two year warranty. Has anyone else changed their EGR valves on spec that it might fail in the future?

 

[deccauk]

Should I change the original EGR on a 2010 build california with 22k from new, I intend to keep the van for a long time. I've been quoted £1200 plus VAT
I've owned from new & no oil issues to date, just the roof which I've been waiting 3 years plus for vw to repair.

I am in the same situation, but have not decided yet. I am about to carry out a Millers oil test to check for contamination. I did visit my local van centre a few days ago to discuss the likelihood of the problem with the service manager.

I was reassured that he knew all about the problem, but he has never encountered it. Most vans that they deal with that have the 180 engine are Transporters, and a large number have been serviced by them over the years.

My cynical brain is also wondering what is different about the D revision EGR. What problems might that reveal after 50,00 miles.Would it be any better than just putting on a brand new revision C - available on ebay for about £300?

 

[methley]

Is there actually evidence that the A suffix egr can cause the fault? I'd always assumed it was the no suffix egr which was the culprit? Are there people out there who's engines have failed with the A suffix egr?

 

[bh-15]

What we need to know is what is the difference of the EGR valves & coolers. How and what causes the corrosion & breakdown of the aluminium.
Most internal combustion engines are made with many aluminium components which have never caused any problems.
Ultimately if I'm going to spend £1440 on a new EGR valve cooler assy I would like to know it's going to be reliable as we have all grown to expect from modern engineered cars.

 

[WelshGas]

What we need to know is what is the difference of the EGR valves & coolers. How and what causes the corrosion & breakdown of the aluminium.
Most internal combustion engines are made with many aluminium components which have never caused any problems.
Ultimately if I'm going to spend £1440 on a new EGR valve cooler assy I would like to know it's going to be reliable as we have all grown to expect from modern engineered cars.

There is no categorical Class 1 evidence, I'm afraid. I'll probably be shouted down, but if it was caused by just one version of an engine component then why are not ALL 2010/2011 180 bitdi engines affected at some mileage. They aren't. I'm not saying the EGR can be excluded but I believe there is something else as well.

 

[bh-15]

I agree. So what is the real cause of the reported engine failures. Is it a result of driving styles or different fuels, manufacturers parts.
Or is it all hype grown from paranoia from a few small number of engine failures.

 

[WelshGas]

I agree. So what is the real cause of the reported engine failures. Is it a result of driving styles or different fuels, manufacturers parts.
Or is it all hype grown from paranoia from a few small number of engine failures.

We will never know.
The reason we have this thread is that many Californias do low average or sub-average annual mileage and now we have a handful of 2010/2011 vehicles reaching the trigger mileage.
Many Commercial vehicles do substantially more annual miles and yet there is a distinct lack of meaningful evidence.

 

[deccauk]

Is there actually evidence that the A suffix egr can cause the fault? I'd always assumed it was the no suffix egr which was the culprit? Are there people out there who's engines have failed with the A suffix egr?

I'm not convinced that it is even the EGR causing the problem. It's all too anecdotal. The internet chatter is all focusing on the fact that any EGR cooler prior to the D revision will eventually bite you in the backside, but there seems to be no hard evidence to prove it. It merely seems to revolve around the fact that the D version is the latest, therefore that version must be OK.

I'm more inclined to favour the theory that some early engines were poorly manufactured with slightly oval cylinder bores, causing premature piston ring wear. That, combined with the long life servicing regime, will eventually cause problems. I just cannot believe that oil contaminated with a tiny amount of aluminium (200 ppm or thereabouts in the worst cases) can cause that much damage to cast iron cylinder bores, particularly if the oil is changed at least annually.

 

[2into1]

I'm not convinced that it is even the EGR causing the problem. It's all too anecdotal. The internet chatter is all focusing on the fact that any EGR cooler prior to the D revision will eventually bite you in the backside, but there seems to be no hard evidence to prove it. It merely seems to revolve around the fact that the D version is the latest, therefore that version must be OK.

I'm more inclined to favour the theory that some early engines were poorly manufactured with slightly oval cylinder bores, causing premature piston ring wear. That, combined with the long life servicing regime, will eventually cause problems. I just cannot believe that oil contaminated with a tiny amount of aluminium (200 ppm or thereabouts in the worst cases) can cause that much damage to cast iron cylinder bores, particularly if the oil is changed at least annually.

Have you looked at the TPIs issued by VW? There is still some uncertainty yes, but your post is pure speculation / head burial.

 

[deccauk]

Have you looked at the TPIs issued by VW? There is still some uncertainty yes, but your post is pure speculation / head burial.

Speculation - of course. Head burial - I wouldn't be commenting if that were the case, so a rather offensive response on your part - and yes, I have seen the TPIs. They reveal absolutely nothing.

 

[WelshGas]

Have you looked at the TPIs issued by VW? There is still some uncertainty yes, but your post is pure speculation / head burial.

No, Open rather than Closed mind. I have seen no Class 1 Evidence to substantiate any of the claims made. I'm not refuting there is not a problem with some engines just that it is all down to a breakdown of the alloy used in the EGR valve/cooler and that one particular series of EGR valves is responsible. I might be proved wrong, but I doubt it.
Yes, there is a 2016 TPI of what to do to fix the problem. There was a similar one in 2015/2014/2013/2012. Similar TPIs also released for other VW Diesel engines for excessive oil consumption. It's just an upto date addendum to the VW Repair manual.

 

[calicasas]

Thanks Alan (and others). here's the latest from me.

VWCS ....waste of time. Not interested in helping. Basic premise is if you do tests and there is an issue under warranty, then "OK, VW will fix it". If not, then you pay.

Oil Test...... dealer says they have no clue as to what would be considered in/out of specification, have never done a test and wouldn't know where to start.

Compression test..... I am now wondering if this is worth it at all (as my engine has only done 13000 miles). it should be pristine and have no wear at all. I would have thought there would be a sensor detecting compression issues (or the like) that would give a warning for further investigation. Any leads on this? The dealer wants £260 to do the test and I'm wondering if its' of value right now.

EGR cooler progression from A to D.....anyone have a formal reason from VW why they made this progression? I'm sure they would argue 'efficiency' of some kind, but maybe it's more to do with EGR failure. I have asked VW for this, but am not expecting anything back.

EGR cooler inspection/replacement with D suffix part.....I am getting a quote for both, but believe any difference will essentially be the cost of the new EGR cooler. Any views on what sort of warranty I'd expect on the replaced part (if I take the plunge to do it)?

Many thanks all.

I was quoted only 6 months warantee, but this surprised me and I don't think is correct, but I couldn't get anything in writing (all verbal) - I had no confidence the person knew what they were talking about.
I wouldn't trust VW, and will go to a good independent VW garage - they will charge you a lot less. I was quoted half the price of VW... At this stage and after this costly mess, I wouldn't take mine to VW on principle...

 

[veg_frenzy]

Is there actually evidence that the A suffix egr can cause the fault? I'd always assumed it was the no suffix egr which was the culprit? Are there people out there who's engines have failed with the A suffix egr?

Good question. This is a tough call - I am struggling myself.
Let me test my thinking/rationale re this issue a bit (if I may):
1) Is the issue solely related to 2010/2011 engines fitted with pre D suffix EGR?
- I'm hearing 'yes' mostly, but there are some cases outside this.
2) Is there confidence that the D suffix EGR is any better?
- Some, but not absolute certainty.
3) Is VW going to help in any meaningful way?
- I think this is a resounding 'no' (with exceptions)
4) Will the way I use my Cali influence realisation of the issue?
- I think only positively (low mileage, DSG, not a 'boy racer'
5) Can I do anything to mitigate the situation?
- Other than replacement of course, I think 'yes' (regular oil analysis, consumption check, annual oil change)

My conclusion from this is that I will not take drastic action now and wait and see. How do others see it?
Thanks.

 

[deccauk]

Good question. This is a tough call - I am struggling myself.
Let me test my thinking/rationale re this issue a bit (if I may):
1) Is the issue solely related to 2010/2011 engines fitted with pre D suffix EGR?
- I'm hearing 'yes' mostly, but there are some cases outside this.
2) Is there confidence that the D suffix EGR is any better?
- Some, but not absolute certainty.
3) Is VW going to help in any meaningful way?
- I think this is a resounding 'no' (with exceptions)
4) Will the way I use my Cali influence realisation of the issue?
- I think only positively (low mileage, DSG, not a 'boy racer'
5) Can I do anything to mitigate the situation?
- Other than replacement of course, I think 'yes' (regular oil analysis, consumption check, annual oil change)

My conclusion from this is that I will not take drastic action now and wait and see. How do others see it?
Thanks.

I concur. My thoughts reflect yours. My cali is a 2011 with 33,000 miles and has had annual oil changes from new (I am the second owner). I have no problem at the moment. A contamination oil test is pending, but for information only, the results of which I will post here.

I am reluctant to spend £1500 on a replacement EGR without conclusive proof that it is the culprit.

 

[veg_frenzy]

Good question. This is a tough call - I am struggling myself.
Let me test my thinking/rationale re this issue a bit (if I may):
1) Is the issue solely related to 2010/2011 engines fitted with pre D suffix EGR?
- I'm hearing 'yes' mostly, but there are some cases outside this.
2) Is there confidence that the D suffix EGR is any better?
- Some, but not absolute certainty.
3) Is VW going to help in any meaningful way?
- I think this is a resounding 'no' (with exceptions)
4) Will the way I use my Cali influence realisation of the issue?
- I think only positively (low mileage, DSG, not a 'boy racer'
5) Can I do anything to mitigate the situation?
- Other than replacement of course, I think 'yes' (regular oil analysis, consumption check, annual oil change)

My conclusion from this is that I will not take drastic action now and wait and see. How do others see it?
Thanks.

Update:
A T5 owing mate of mine just heard that a 2014 reg (20000 miles), went in for it's health check, issues were highlighted and the whole EGR system was replaced from suffix A to D, all under warranty..........some dealer in Sheffield apparently.
This seesaw is driving me nuts.......no consistency!

 

[deccauk]

Update:
A T5 owing mate of mine just heard that a 2014 reg (20000 miles), went in for it's health check, issues were highlighted and the whole EGR system was replaced from suffix A to D, all under warranty..........some dealer in Sheffield apparently.
This seesaw is driving me nuts.......no consistency!

There will be other EGR issues that are unrelated. I get the impression that

 

[deccauk]

..it can be troublesome.

...hit enter by mistake on my post. Can't seem to edit your own posts anymore????

 

[snowy55]

..it can be troublesome.

...hit enter by mistake on my post. Can't seem to edit your own posts anymore????

You have to be a VIP member to edit posts