Service Interval

[Azteccamper]

I changed both Timing Belt and Waterpump (incl. stud, antifreeze, etc.) after 6 yrs with VW independent for £500 all in using genuine parts. Not sure why anyone would pay some of the above prices at dealers for what is a straight forward job.

 

[WelshGas]

On the other hand, on the biturbo engines, where the issue of excessive oil consumption beginning at 40k mi leading to an inevitable total engine failure, was tracked down to the excessive heat produced by theses engine that „cooked“ the not adequately cooled oil, where the easy and only viable solution was to change the oil much more often (12k km) , this solution was never passed on to the biturbo owner…

I think you need to check some of your facts.

1. In Europe part of the VW Service schedule involves a visual inspection of the Cambelt. Not so in the U.K. Instead VWUK recommend changing the Cambelt at 4 yrs or 80,000 miles.

2. Your theory regarding the 180 biturbo is just that, a theory, not backed up by any evidence.

My 8 yr old 180 biturbo is now on 120,000 miles. Oil usage is now undetectable between oil changes, normally done at around 15,000 miles together with the annual MOT and the MFD usually indicates 6,000 miles before an oil change is due at that time.

 

[Calimili]

I think you need to check some of your facts.

1. In Europe part of the VW Service schedule involves a visual inspection of the Cambelt. Not so in the U.K. Instead VWUK recommend changing the Cambelt at 4 yrs or 80,000 miles.

2. Your theory regarding the 180 biturbo is just that, a theory, not backed up by any evidence.

My 8 yr old 180 biturbo is now on 120,000 miles. Oil usage is now undetectable between oil changes, normally done at around 15,000 miles together with the annual MOT and the MFD usually indicates 6,000 miles before an oil change is due at that time.

What would be the reason for VWUK not to perform a visual inspection ? It certainly is cheaper to pay for a 5min visual inspection every 2 years than unnecessarily swap a cambelt every four years at 700 pounds a pop.

Your 8 year old biturbo might as well be fine, but that doesn't mean no other t5 BiTu ever had a prolem.
It is unquestionable and backed by many examples, also on this forum, that there were plenty of biturbos prematurely failing. At least in Germany, independent mechanics that diagnosed the failing engines found the oil was "cooked" due to high temperatures failing to lubricate the cylinder/pistons adequately. In the latest versions of this engines , (I think the EA288) an oil radiator, or bigger oil radiator was added to prevent the oil from deteriorating causing piston rings to be damaged , the oil then passing through, leading to even higher temp while the oil was being consumed, burned and deposited in the exhaust manifold with metal residues where it was actually found. .
It is not a theory, you can imagine in Germany there are also a lot of t5/t6 biturbos, probably a lot more than in the UK and the germans had the same problems with these engines. Not every single engine, but many enough, as people were asked to pay 15-17k € to replace their engine before reaching 100k km....

 

[WelshGas]

What would be the reason for VWUK not to perform a visual inspection ? It certainly is cheaper to pay for a 5min visual inspection every 2 years than unnecessarily swap a cambelt every four years at 700 pounds a pop.

Your 8 year old biturbo might as well be fine, but that doesn't mean no other t5 BiTu ever had a prolem.
It is unquestionable and backed by many examples, also on this forum, that there were plenty of biturbos prematurely failing. At least in Germany, independent mechanics that diagnosed the failing engines found the oil was "cooked" due to high temperatures failing to lubricate the cylinder/pistons adequately. In the latest versions of this engines , (I think the EA288) an oil radiator, or bigger oil radiator was added to prevent the oil from deteriorating causing piston rings to be damaged , the oil then passing through, leading to even higher temp while the oil was being consumed, burned and deposited in the exhaust manifold with metal residues where it was actually found. .
It is not a theory, you can imagine in Germany there are also a lot of t5/t6 biturbos, probably a lot more than in the UK and the germans had the same problems with these engines. Not every single engine, but many enough, as people were asked to pay 15-17k € to replace their engine before reaching 100k km....

So that's a a 2nd Theory doing the rounds with NO Evidence to back it up. The Facebook group says its a disintegrating EGR and to change the EGR to the latest version.
The fact that there are 2 competing hypothesis with No Evidence to back up either means that the likelihood of either being the root cause is slim to none.
And don't confuse the problems with 2010/2011 Biturbos that is recognised by VW who issued a TPI document listing affected CFCA Engine numbers and the warranty repair action, with subsequent oil usage problems which have affected a small number of low annual milage vehicles.

Unless you, or anyone, has documented proof of such causes then it is just an unproven hypothesis.

 

[scottk]

What would be the reason for VWUK not to perform a visual inspection ? It certainly is cheaper to pay for a 5min visual inspection every 2 years than unnecessarily swap a cambelt every four years at 700 pounds a pop.

Your 8 year old biturbo might as well be fine, but that doesn't mean no other t5 BiTu ever had a prolem.
It is unquestionable and backed by many examples, also on this forum, that there were plenty of biturbos prematurely failing. At least in Germany, independent mechanics that diagnosed the failing engines found the oil was "cooked" due to high temperatures failing to lubricate the cylinder/pistons adequately. In the latest versions of this engines , (I think the EA288) an oil radiator, or bigger oil radiator was added to prevent the oil from deteriorating causing piston rings to be damaged , the oil then passing through, leading to even higher temp while the oil was being consumed, burned and deposited in the exhaust manifold with metal residues where it was actually found. .
It is not a theory, you can imagine in Germany there are also a lot of t5/t6 biturbos, probably a lot more than in the UK and the germans had the same problems with these engines. Not every single engine, but many enough, as people were asked to pay 15-17k € to replace their engine before reaching 100k km....

I think you have answered your own question. VWUK dealers make a lot of money from cam belt changes. This is across the whole VAG group in the UK. Seat, VW, Audi and Skoda all have the time and distance intervals instead of mileage like the rest of the world. Think how much they must make.

 

[Perfectos]

Can I politely ask, if the 180 Bi turbo failure debate is going to rumble on, can you take it over to the appropriate thread, so this one can stay on subject please.
many thanks

 

[Amarillo]

I can recommend

Peter Norris

www.peternorris.co.uk

4.7 on Google reviews. Fairly near you. 6 miles?
I’ve used them for my Golf and Cali for about ten years. John on the front desk has always been very helpful and I trust them. With a 5 cylinder T5 I’ve never had a cam belt changed though. All cogs.

SMG Croydon once quoted me £1000 to replace the £18 water pump in the wardrobe. Not been back.

My Golf got a cam belt at 6 years and 20k. John probably thought I was mad. It’s now 14 years old and 45k. Maybe next year…if I don’t sell it and get an i3!

Booked in for Wednesday 25 January.

£560 inc VAT for Cam belt and Water pump.

They initially quoted £600, but I told them about @Perfectos recommendation and they dropped to match.

Digital service record will be updated.

 

[WelshGas]

Can I politely ask, if the 180 Bi turbo failure debate is going to rumble on, can you take it over to the appropriate thread, so this one can stay on subject please.
many thanks

There is no debate. Just a correction of unsubstantiated comments.

 

[BeeBee]

Can you advise which dealership please ?

VW Edinburgh

 

[Cali Phillip]

VW Edinburgh

Looking myself for the Cam belt and water pump, the online price is £888 at Edinburgh, £870 VW Inverness and £770 Vw Durham.
Note the interval on the info icon said 4 to 5 yrs so trying to clarify the with the dealer so as not to affect the all in warranty. Only 33K at the moment and mostly 45+ miles journeys.

 

[Wildcamper]

Looking myself for the Cam belt and water pump, the online price is £888 at Edinburgh, £870 VW Inverness and £770 Vw Durham.
Note the interval on the info icon said 4 to 5 yrs so trying to clarify the with the dealer so as not to affect the all in warranty. Only 33K at the moment and mostly 45+ miles journeys.

That seems a lot. My local independent using the same components VW use charged me just under £500 a couple of months ago.

 

[Cali Phillip]

That seems a lot. My local independent using the same components VW use charged me just under £500 a couple of months ago.

Indeed, selection is more limited up here, although VW price cam belt vs cambelt with +pump is not fsr off double.
See if 5 yrs is acceptable on warranty terms.

 

[Wildcamper]

Indeed, selection is more limited up here, although VW price cam belt vs cambelt with +pump is not fsr off double.
See if 5 yrs is acceptable on warranty terms.

Ah, Highlands you have a point. Mine was cambelt + water pump.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Ah, Highlands you have a point. Mine was cambelt + water pump.

indeed, we pay more for most things.
I hope to get the all in deal again at the end of this 2 year deal.
Interesting VW Edinburgh is £10 more expensive than Inverness from which I have had good service very happy with.

 

[Perfectos]

Indeed, selection is more limited up here, although VW price cam belt vs cambelt with +pump is not fsr off double.
See if 5 yrs is acceptable on warranty terms.

Does this help get an alternative quote ?

Volkswagen specialists | Chalmers Garage

Your search for Volkswagen specialists or Audi specialists in Inverness or anywhere in the Highlands ends with Chalmers Garage. Give us a call today for more details.

www.chalmers-garage.com

https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/garages/k/kennys-autorepairs-vw-audi-specialists/

 

[Amarillo]

That seems a lot. My local independent using the same components VW use charged me just under £500 a couple of months ago.

I paid £560 (London prices) at an independent last week.

Cam belt, water pump and they charged £zero for a coolant top up.

Nice touch.

After my service plan expires I will probably be using them for all Amarillo’s servicing requirements.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Does this help get an alternative quote ?

Volkswagen specialists | Chalmers Garage

Your search for Volkswagen specialists or Audi specialists in Inverness or anywhere in the Highlands ends with Chalmers Garage. Give us a call today for more details.

www.chalmers-garage.com

https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/garages/k/kennys-autorepairs-vw-audi-specialists/

Thank you .
I have already requested a quote from them as they are in the 15mile radius of Vw inverness and some others.

 

[Cali Phillip]

I paid £560 (London prices) at an independent last week.

Cam belt, water pump and they charged £zero for a coolant top up.

Nice touch.

After my service plan expires I will probably be using them for all Amarillo’s servicing requirements.

Yes I am minded to follow that however one advantage of continuing the all in is warranty incase some of the common issues like erg, Crank seals etc happened it could be rather useful.

 

[Perfectos]

Update of my earlier post as promise:

VW OEM Cam belt and water pump change: 2018 150ps

listed below are the part numbers of the OEM parts for anyone who’s interested.

completed by: VW Revolution (great Missenden) - (former VW master tech).

cost £560.16 inc Vat (vs VW dealer £958 inc vat) saving £398 !

Electronic service record updated & paper copy provided, stating VIN number and mileage.
Vat invoice & itemised bill provided, stating VIN number and mileage:

Labour:
Hrs 2.6 + £65 = £202.80 inc

VW OEM parts / prices:
Cam belt Kit: 04L198119D = £197.16 inc
Water pump: 04L12011M = £147.00 inc
Coolant: 2 litres =£13.20 inc

The above parts are available for less via OEM parts sellers

old parts returned (on request) no signs of wear on any item, original water pump no leaks.

I hope this is of use to some.

Based on the above and quoted prices from VW dealer, Labour rate for the identical works must be IRO £230 per hour !

(Possibly more if you take favourable parts pricing for VW dealers into account)

 

[Amarillo]

I’ve just had my annual service, first out of the five year warranty.

The list of things that needed doing was horrendous.

I haven’t had the bill yet, but if I get change from £1,000 I will consider myself lucky.

 

[Perfectos]

I’ve just had my annual service, first out of the five year warranty.

The list of things that needed doing was horrendous.

I haven’t had the bill yet, but if I get change from £1,000 I will consider myself lucky.

What was the list of things ?

 

[Amarillo]

I’d already had the cam belt done. But they said that either the cam belt or alternator belt was making a funny noise on startup.

They said it would cost £120 to find out which one was making the funny noise, but (mistakenly) said that would be covered by my service plan.

They removed the alternator belt and the funny noise stopped (was that really going to cost £120 alone!?) £307.49 for a new alternator belt and tensioner.

The brake pads were 20% worn. No action. But then I got that dreaded call. Although the pads are 20% worn, the discs are corroded and really need replacing. They are six years old and have done 85,000 miles, so perhaps no big surprise. £420 - but as they’d already said the brakes were fine they’d give a 10% discount…

For two tyres they were asking 180.90 EACH. They are still legal, so I’ll go to my local tyre place.

Rear wiper not working. I told them this when arrived with the van. They want £120 to investigate. I told them to forget it. The rear wiper got trapped by one of the arms of the bike rack and was left on during a long journey. Either the fuse has gone or the motor has burnt out. I’ll check the fuse myself and if that’s OK, I’ll get someone to replace the motor.

 

[Perfectos]

I’d already had the cam belt done. But they said that either the cam belt or alternator belt was making a funny noise on startup.

They said it would cost £120 to find out which one was making the funny noise, but (mistakenly) said that would be covered by my service plan.

They removed the alternator belt and the funny noise stopped (was that really going to cost £120 alone!?) £307.49 for a new alternator belt and tensioner.

The brake pads were 20% worn. No action. But then I got that dreaded call. Although the pads are 20% worn, the discs are corroded and really need replacing. They are six years old and have done 85,000 miles, so perhaps no big surprise. £420 - but as they’d already said the brakes were fine they’d give a 10% discount…

For two tyres they were asking 180.90 EACH. They are still legal, so I’ll go to my local tyre place.

Rear wiper not working. I told them this when arrived with the van. They want £120 to investigate. I told them to forget it. The rear wiper got trapped by one of the arms of the bike rack and was left on during a long journey. Either the fuse has gone or the motor has burnt out. I’ll check the fuse myself and if that’s OK, I’ll get someone to replace the motor.

I guess the £120 charge per fault diagnosis is the catch 22, Dealers will make an Uber amount of money Charging for their fixed overhead purely investigating faults ?

is it me or should a good mechanic investigate a potential fault (particularly mechanical issue) to allow them to fully understand the issue & make a diagnosis as part of their work, which would naturally result in a charge for parts and Labour to rectify ?
I.e that’s how a garage make their money (by providing expertise, highlighting a potential fault through their expertise and experience then subsequently repair) not a flat fee of £120 to investigate a fault regardless of whether they can / will/ could fix it !
Are VW trying to have their cake and eat it In So far as the initial diagnosis fee is not being rebated against the cost to repair ? if they had not carried out the diagnosis they wouldn’t be able to quote parts and Labour for the repair!

example :
how many other businesses can do that . I.e make a charge to provide a quote to fix an issue ? If a builder charged to attend, diagnose an issue and provide a quote to fix the issue prior to them actually doing anything you would laugh at them and go elsewhere?

 

[Perfectos]

the discs are corroded and really need replacing

Are they an MOT failure ?

 

[andyinluton]

If a builder charged to attend, diagnose an issue and provide a quote to fix the issue prior to them actually doing anything you would laugh at them and go elsewhere?

Plumbers do, washing machine repair people do & no one expects any different.

Builders do on major projects, I am currently doing about £200ks worth of investigations to come up with firm price on a £10m refurbishment project.