Increased Oil Consumption Problem (2010 T5 Cali 180 bhp)

[craigs902]

All I will add is this : the T5-life site is up and running you can make up your own mind based on other T5 van owners what they've experienced, what they have found to be the cause and what they've done to fix the problem. Then it's all up to you to decide what to do with the van you drive.


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[briwy]

You say what they have found to be the cause but nothing is as yet substantiated.
Also, just to point out removing EGR valves, blanking it off and/or removing the dmf is illegal and would certainly invoke an MOT fail if the test is done correctly.

 

[WelshGas]

All I will add is this : the T5-life site is up and running you can make up your own mind based on other T5 van owners what they've experienced, what they have found to be the cause and what they've done to fix the problem. Then it's all up to you to decide what to do with the van you drive.


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And this was on the site you mentioned.



Apparently the whole CFCA issues are only effecting some but not all engines. Based on what I have seen in the field so far, it seems that driving style has a lot to do with it. My own CFCA for example has absolutely no issues - and so don't most of them out there. It looks very much like only those running their BiTDIs very hard are having trouble (yours with a modification is a good candidate for that assumption). That theory is covered by feedback from a tuner buddy, for example the new software is now limiting top speed and other factors based on water/oil temps more than before.

 

[veg_frenzy]

I can understand that there are plenty of sources for the aluminium, but where else could the Silicon be coming from? It's usually just trace amounts in oil. Apologies if I couldn't find a previous explanation in the thread.

Ref Al & Si sources:
- Al: Possible from cylinder lining, but only on older engine. Mine has done only 14 k miles, and has 2x the expected Al level on an oil that has done 4k miles. if that was coming from the cylinders, I'd be consuming oil....I'm not.
Si: The 'earth' is a source, but not at the levels being seen. I have 2x to expected level.

The only credible source is EGR cooler assembly. It is an Al Si alloy casting that is known to corrode in corrosive environments. Allegedly the D version has the cooling fins coated to prevent/reduce corrosion.

 

[markh]

Yes, I agree. To my eyes, despite the evidence not being 100% conclusive, it does seem to be the most likely cause. I doubt VW will ever admit what the exact problem is so we have to go with the findings we've got so far from other owners. It's not like anyone is likely to be in a position to do exhaustive/conclusive testing to 100% prove if it's the EGR cooler or not.

So that still leaves us in a position of not really knowing what the best course of action is. Here are the options as I see them.

- Do nothing and wait to see if high oil usage ever occurs. If it does - new engine: £6000+

- Fit new version D cooler, monitor oil contamination and hope that the new cooler has in fact solved the problem: £1000+

- Blank EGR (and DPF) to prevent any more contaminants from the cooler getting to the cylinders. Monitor oil contamination. Illegal and possibly unethical but not detectable on MOT at present apparently. £700+

- Hope VW acknowledge the issue and sort everyone's van for free.

 

[veg_frenzy]

Yes, I agree. To my eyes, despite the evidence not being 100% conclusive, it does seem to be the most likely cause. I doubt VW will ever admit what the exact problem is so we have to go with the findings we've got so far from other owners. It's not like anyone is likely to be in a position to do exhaustive/conclusive testing to 100% prove if it's the EGR cooler or not.

So that still leaves us in a position of not really knowing what the best course of action is. Here are the options as I see them.

- Do nothing and wait to see if high oil usage ever occurs. If it does - new engine: £6000+

- Fit new version D cooler, monitor oil contamination and hope that the new cooler has in fact solved the problem: £1000+

- Blank EGR (and DPF) to prevent any more contaminants from the cooler getting to the cylinders. Monitor oil contamination. Illegal and possibly unethical but not detectable on MOT at present apparently. £700+

- Hope VW acknowledge the issue and sort everyone's van for free.

4) = pipe dream (sadly)
3) I don't recommend this and won't be doing it
2) A serious (if not costly) contender - sort of insurance policy AND would give you an additional 2 yrs of warranty (for that part at least)
1) Another serious contender

I'm torn between (1) and (2). Of course, add to this annual oil changes for all cases.

 

[markh]

Yes, that is my thinking too. I'm a bit too scared from a legal/future MOT perspective to go for 3, although I strongly suspect it may work. I'm going to get a compression test done next week to help make my decision. If that comes back OK, I might go for 2. If it doesn't, then I think I will have no choice but 1, since the damage has already been done.

Definitely yearly oil changes for me as well now!

 

[veg_frenzy]

Yes, that is my thinking too. I'm a bit too scared from a legal/future MOT perspective to go for 3, although I strongly suspect it may work. I'm going to get a compression test done next week to help make my decision. If that comes back OK, I might go for 2. If it doesn't, then I think I will have no choice but 1, since the damage has already been done.

Definitely yearly oil changes for me as well now!

I'm having 2nd thoughts re compression and ECU read out checks.....talking to multiple VW dealers they say "if you have a compression issue, you'll get a red warning light"............so, what's the point...maybe more insurance, but based on what I've been quoted, thats' 30% of the costs to get a new EGR.

 

[veg_frenzy]

And this was on the site you mentioned.



Apparently the whole CFCA issues are only effecting some but not all engines. Based on what I have seen in the field so far, it seems that driving style has a lot to do with it. My own CFCA for example has absolutely no issues - and so don't most of them out there. It looks very much like only those running their BiTDIs very hard are having trouble (yours with a modification is a good candidate for that assumption). That theory is covered by feedback from a tuner buddy, for example the new software is now limiting top speed and other factors based on water/oil temps more than before.

Well said WelshGas. If you're inclined to do so, would you consider doing an oil test? Maybe (or maybe not) that would indicate if your driving style would be beneficial to oil quality. Not that scientific I know, but an indicator. Thanks.

 

[WelshGas]

Well said WelshGas. If you're inclined to do so, would you consider doing an oil test? Maybe (or maybe not) that would indicate if your driving style would be beneficial to oil quality. Not that scientific I know, but an indicator. Thanks.

I have no intention of doing an Oil test, nor Compression, nor changing the EGR. Haven't even looked at it. I do 20,000 miles a year and the Oil is changed as per VW's Service schedule. The engine is not thrashed nor do I drive sedately.
I just enjoy it. I'll reach 60,000 miles this year so we will see what happens.
Did you read the PDF file in Post 224. You will see that the CFCA engine is used by other vehicles within the VW Group and yet I cannot find anything regarding this problem , except for the 2010/2011 engines which had a manufacturing problem apparently fixed in mid 2011.

 

[veg_frenzy]

I have no intention of doing an Oil test, nor Compression, nor changing the EGR. Haven't even looked at it. I do 20,000 miles a year and the Oil is changed as per VW's Service schedule. The engine is not thrashed nor do I drive sedately.
I just enjoy it. I'll reach 60,000 miles this year so we will see what happens.
Did you read the PDF file in Post 224. You will see that the CFCA engine is used by other vehicles within the VW Group and yet I cannot find anything regarding this problem , except for the 2010/2011 engines which had a manufacturing problem apparently fixed in mid 2011.

Fair enough - I understand your position. Out of interest, have you checked what version your EGR cooler assembly is (i.e. no, A C or D suffix)? Thanks. Ref other vehicle issues, I understood there was a similar issue with eth Audi A5.....I may be wrong.

 

[markh]

I'm having 2nd thoughts re compression and ECU read out checks.....talking to multiple VW dealers they say "if you have a compression issue, you'll get a red warning light"............so, what's the point...maybe more insurance, but based on what I've been quoted, thats' 30% of the costs to get a new EGR.

I guess it depends on what value the warning light comes on at. New values are 25-31 bar. Anything below 19 is basically engine fail.

I haven't queried a price for the compression test yet but one of the guys on the FB forum got his done at a VW dealer for £50 + VAT. This seemed pretty reasonable. If they quote me 30% cost of the cooler (~£300 I guess), I certainly won't be having it done there. Should be a pretty easy job as long as the glow plugs aren't seized.

 

[veg_frenzy]

I guess it depends on what value the warning light comes on at. New values are 25-31 bar. Anything below 19 is basically engine fail.

I haven't queried a price for the compression test yet but one of the guys on the FB forum got his done at a VW dealer for £50 + VAT. This seemed pretty reasonable. If they quote me 30% cost of the cooler (~£300 I guess), I certainly won't be having it done there. Should be a pretty easy job as long as the glow plugs aren't seized.

A few things:
- I have a compression cost quote of £264 (inc.) from VW dealer. Mate of mine tried to get one done, but glow plugs were seized. VW said if they sheared, cost of repair would be down to him - he declined the test. He was quoted £159.
- I have a EGR valve replacement (p&l) quote of £1400 (750 p, 650 l) from same VW dealer. Its a 5-6 hr job apparently.

I have called around several dealers. Prices vary. The cheaper prices were associated with those who seemed less experienced (e.g. "What's a compression test? We've never run of them.").

 

[markh]

Blimey, prices do vary a lot! From £60 to £264 for a compression test!

 

[WelshGas]

Fair enough - I understand your position. Out of interest, have you checked what version your EGR cooler assembly is (i.e. no, A C or D suffix)? Thanks. Ref other vehicle issues, I understood there was a similar issue with eth Audi A5.....I may be wrong.

No. But it was replaced at 900 miles due to an electrical fault, so replaced 15th December 2014, with a unit direct from VW Germany and also had a software update because of the new EGR.

 

[bh-15]

Well I may have wasted more money (which I haven't got) but I've changed the original EGR on a 2010 built Cali. After 22k miles no oil consumption I may have been a victim of internet scaremongering but I just couldn't bear the thought of doing damage to my engine.

 

[2into1]

Well I may have wasted more money (which I haven't got) but I've changed the original EGR on a 2010 built Cali. After 22k miles no oil consumption I may have been a victim of internet scaremongering but I just couldn't bear the thought of doing damage to my engine.

Difficult decision I bet. I trust it's a '/D' and that you'll be keeping several copies of the receipt for when you come to sell?

 

[markh]

Well I may have wasted more money (which I haven't got) but I've changed the original EGR on a 2010 built Cali

What did it cost to change, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[bh-15]

Yes new version 'D' fitted in place of the no suffix one which I now have for examination. The cost incuding EGR, gaskets, bolts, hoses £1096 plus VAT or £1315.20 inc VAT

 

[markh]

Thanks. Gives me an idea of price if I decide to get it done. Where about's in the country was that? Do you know if there was a software update as well to go with it? I've heard that when they fit a new engine due to this issue they do an update but not sure if that also happens with just a new cooler.

Are you planning to cut the old one open to have a look? It would be really interesting to see what state it's in.

 

[bh-15]

Thanks. Gives me an idea of price if I decide to get it done. Where about's in the country was that? Do you know if there was a software update as well to go with it? I've heard that when they fit a new engine due to this issue they do an update but not sure if that also happens with just a new cooler.

Are you planning to cut the old one open to have a look? It would be really interesting to see what state it's in.

 

[bh-15]

Lookers Newcastle. It was done at the same time with belts, pump, haldex oil and service.
With regard to inspecting the old EGR I'm reluctant to destroy, may try an endoscope if it will get in. I haven't had time to have a good look at it and don't want to be too hasty about destroying it.

 

[markh]

Worth a try I guess but I think I read somewhere that you really need to clean off all the soot deposits to properly see if any of the alloy fins have corroded and lost metal.

 

[veg_frenzy]

No. But it was replaced at 900 miles due to an electrical fault, so replaced 15th December 2014, with a unit direct from VW Germany and also had a software update because of the new EGR.

At the risk of irritating you further WelshGas, would you be so kind to check your version and share with the forum? Thanks.

 

[2into1]

At the risk of irritating you further WelshGas, would you be so kind to check your version and share with the forum? Thanks.

** Fetches popcorn **