Just announced - T6 recall for roof corrosion beneath the seal

[Digger]

And to prevent owners from looking for corrosion I suspect.....

Agree. Also forgive my ignorance but is it possible to exclude moisture when a large metal panel is subject to heat and cold variations. Maybe a metalurgist could advise. Personally I doubt the effectiveness of tape even over a couple of years.

 

[Dave Lowe]

Very true Digger l

 

[Jabberwocky]

Agree. Also forgive my ignorance but is it possible to exclude moisture when a large metal panel is subject to heat and cold variations. Maybe a metalurgist could advise. Personally I doubt the effectiveness of tape even over a couple of years.

And........will all the air be excluded during this sealing? If not, I suspect with thermo cycling condensation will rear it’s head beneath the seal with all the associated issues with that. The cynic in me says this fix is only a way of getting back some reputation for VW and to get past the warranty date when of course VW will play the expiry card. Sorry I’ll leave now!

 

[Borris]

And........will all the air be excluded during this sealing? If not, I suspect with thermo cycling condensation will rear it’s head beneath the seal with all the associated issues with that. The cynic in me says this fix is only a way of getting back some reputation for VW and to get past the warranty date when of course VW will play the expiry card. Sorry I’ll leave now!

And will the rubber seal be thoroughly dried out before refitting?

I too am yet to be convinced that these measures will be a total once and for all fix. As far as I understand it the potential causes are still there. I believe that the California rubber roof seal still contains a steel gripper and the roof itself is still aluminium. This fix seems to provide a foil barrier preventing contact between these two metal components with the sealant keeping the moisture out. However over time the moisture will get past the sealant, it always does. Also I'm not convinced that the foil will prove to be an effective long term barrier either. If the steel gripper can work its way through the rubber seal then sure as eggs it'll make short work of a thin plastic foil.

Still a may be totally wrong and this will be the last of the roof corrosion issues.

 

[Max-Felix]

@Vw guru and anyone else! What is the real reason do you think VW just don't care to sort this saga out that has persisted for maybe ten years now??

They have an unbelievably huge R&D budget and know-how but the proverbial infinite monkeys would work out a solution more quickly than they seem inclined to.

It's only a simple blooming seal and isolation issue (together with a better/thicker paint edge finish). A bunch of engineers, production managers, paint suppliers and seal manufacturers could surely work it out once and for all sat round a table in just one morning. It's not even as if the cost would be that great in changing a few basic materials. Instead they continue with a pathetic sticking plaster solution squirting gunk and applying tape to £60k vehicles.

Why oh why oh why don't they deal with it? We on this forum who have gone round and round this for years now must all be dumbfounded as to their inability to bother or care.

This is surely the only modern vehicle from a mainstream manufacturer that is not improved/refined/corrected in it's production life in this way.

Is it the fact the California conversion is an entirely separate production facility/company to regular VW's?

Or more likely the vast majority of new buyer's are blissfully ignorant of this and VW get away with it just because they can...

 

[2into1]

There is a bad case of cracking on the composite roof on a new Marco Polo.... Made me feel a bit better (reported on their Facebook group).

 

[Borris]

There is a bad case of cracking on the composite roof on a new Marco Polo.... Made me feel a bit better (reported on their Facebook group).

I had wondered about that. If your Cali roof gets snagged it will bend but with a fibra glass or composite job it will likely crack. I'm not sure which would be the easiest and cheaest to fix?

 

[Stoneybroke]

The fact VW are doing a recall and preventative programme is a big step. Should the corrosion raise its head later then the consumer will have a strong position to prove, if necessary at court, that the product was faulty at the time they took ownership of it. Such a claim can be made within six years of the purchase under the Consumer Credit Act 2015.

 

[Volkywagen]

I’ve emailed a few pop top companies to see if it’s possible to make a seal with stainless wire. Or any other non ferrous material for that matter. Taking this into my own hands.....might make a fortune. Vw won’t do anything about it and will still be churning vans out in ten years with steel wire in the seals. Now, back to my rotting 11 month old California....

 

[calikev]

the seal is very complicated with a hollow channel running through it

 

[2into1]

the seal is very complicated with a hollow channel running through it

I agree it is complex, but does it need to be? I'm not sure it's doing a different job to the rubber seals that were being fitted 30 years ago. Manufacturers ability to make stuff unnecessarily complex seems to be a trend.

 

[sensisuperstar]

My T6 went in this morning but alas the parts had not arrived from VW, so back again in a few weeks time...

The materials finally arrived so the van went in earlier this week. VW inspected the roof and as no corrosion was noted the tape was applied. Fingers crossed this approach solves the problem.

 

[VW Guru]

@Vw guru and anyone else! What is the real reason do you think VW just don't care to sort this saga out that has persisted for maybe ten years now??

They have an unbelievably huge R&D budget and know-how but the proverbial infinite monkeys would work out a solution more quickly than they seem inclined to.

It's only a simple blooming seal and isolation issue (together with a better/thicker paint edge finish). A bunch of engineers, production managers, paint suppliers and seal manufacturers could surely work it out once and for all sat round a table in just one morning. It's not even as if the cost would be that great in changing a few basic materials. Instead they continue with a pathetic sticking plaster solution squirting gunk and applying tape to £60k vehicles.

Why oh why oh why don't they deal with it? We on this forum who have gone round and round this for years now must all be dumbfounded as to their inability to bother or care.

This is surely the only modern vehicle from a mainstream manufacturer that is not improved/refined/corrected in it's production life in this way.

Is it the fact the California conversion is an entirely separate production facility/company to regular VW's?

Or more likely the vast majority of new buyer's are blissfully ignorant of this and VW get away with it just because they can...

Hi @Max-Felix i don’t feel it’s that they don’t care it’s more the fact that even the slightest change of any kind needs to be scrutinized and rubber stamped by so many different departments and people these days any decisions or changes take an age. Let’s say the seal is changed for another type then vw have to find a company to make the seal they have to be approved by vw that can take a few years then the production cost of that seal is 10p more than the seal now times 100000 calis then that’s a £10000 production cost increase that has not be budgeted for so that then needs approval and so it goes on. It seams simple to us but the regulations and internal policies to make the slightest change are long and complex.

I’ve seen all of the corrosion issues with the roofs and not everyone is due to the seal the paint has blistered on some and the seal is in perfect condition the issue it would seem on most is due to the build up of water between the seal and the roof, the moisture then sits there and because of a thin paint edge the moisture creeps in. We are told if we find corrosion under the seal then we have to apply Zinc paint to that area after removal of the corrosion. Personally I feel the zinc paint should be applied around the complete edge of the roof and a new seal fitted to every vehicle with the correct bonding adhesive as well as the tape.

However I am not the manufacturer and what they decided to instruct us as dealers to do has to be followed or there are consequences for us and penalties from vw .

 

[Max-Felix]

Thanks Guru - your input as ever is invaluable. As I mentioned in the (rather rambling post) the thin paint edge (always an issue as per the way VW filler flaps rot) and seemingly a finishing process/product for the edges of the aluminium roofs that is simply not thick/protective/durable enough does seem to be a large part of the issue. I understand production is complicated but it ain't rocket science to improve this paint process or apply a simple further thin seal/PPF etc at production time to cover this area.

 

[Skylark2.0]

We have just taken Starlight in for a service and were told they would like to do a 2 hr "roof product enhancement" that VW would like to "try". We do not seem to have the roof issue and m comment is, under no circumstances go anywhere near our roof seal.
Has anyone else heard of this product enhancement?

 

[Borris]

And another thing! The bead of sealant that we've been told VW will apply around the entire re-fitted rubber roof seal is I'm sure intended to prevent moisture from entering the rubber seal thereby helping to prevent the ideal conditions for bi-metalic corrosion. However unless I've misunderstood the process, this bead will only be applied to the external lip of the rubber seal, with no sealant being applied to the internal lip beneath the roof. As the seal is basically a U shaped cross section, over time moisture could still enter via this internal unsealed lip. Obviously this moisture wouldn't be from direct rain but could normal humid conditions and temperature fluctuations enable the aluminium roof lip to sweet inside the seal due to moisture ingress via this unsealed seal lip?

I might be wrong but the more I think about this fix the more it strikes me as a temporary solution that will in effect merely kick the can down the street.

 

[Gary&Heather]

It appears to me and I may be a little bit suspicious but this fix is just to get you past the warranty stage, but that's only my opinion and for a permanent fix well VW have had leaking windows for 15 years the thing is we have bought another VW campervan so what can I say

 

[owen_h]

It appears to me and I may be a little bit suspicious but this fix is just to get you past the warranty stage,

Except that it seems to apply to vehicles that are already out of warranty? This thread has mentioning it applying from 2010 onward. (and a query from someone with a 2009 vehicle) .

 

[Max-Felix]

I've been running a configuration this lunchtime and did notice this which seems a move in the right direction (ie at time of manufacture) at least, but only on Beach?:

 

[Auberg-ine]

[

I've been running a configuration this lunchtime and did notice this which seems a move in the right direction (ie at time of manufacture) at least, but only on Beach?:View attachment 38722

?? Do I understand it right that the solution to a VW concept failure is sold as an option?
We must be the world's most silly customers...

 

[marchugo]

[

?? Do I understand it right that the solution to a VW concept failure is sold as an option?
We must be the world's most silly customers...

Hi Auberg,

Why so surprised?
It’s the pure German entrepreneurial mentality: why should we correct such a ten year old failure in our Hannover assembly line production, if we can foot the bill as an option for the buyers of a brand new Cali.
Just call it a “limited lifetime enhancement” as an option for 357 euro.

Marc.

 

[Borris]

I've been running a configuration this lunchtime and did notice this which seems a move in the right direction (ie at time of manufacture) at least, but only on Beach?:View attachment 38722

Where have you got that from MF? I've just checked the calendar and it isn't April 1st yet!

If it's for real then I'm astounded.

 

[Auberg-ine]

Hi Auberg,

Why so surprised?
It’s the pure German entrepreneurial mentality: why should we correct such a ten year old failure in our Hannover assembly line production, if we can foot the bill as an option for the buyers of a brand new Cali.
Just call it a “limited lifetime enhancement” as an option for 357 euro.

Marc.

Indeed. What I don't get is that if there would be e.g. a leak at a seal of a type of washing machine, you would have immediately a consumers organization sue that company, putting them in front of their legal responsibilities.
Here we are with thousands, stressful waiting for when the corrosion will appear, or in rage already. But we just keep complaining amongst us, year after year....
'Enfin', at least they started that 'band-aid' action. I'll check on Monday if or when it passes in Belgium here....

 

[Stoneybroke]

We have just taken Starlight in for a service and were told they would like to do a 2 hr "roof product enhancement" that VW would like to "try". We do not seem to have the roof issue and m comment is, under no circumstances go anywhere near our roof seal.
Has anyone else heard of this product enhancement?

View attachment 38721

This recall (aka product enhancement) is thethe wh theme of the thread!

Abide by the recall, they will check for some of bubbling and repair before tapping the edges, then if there are any problems with corrosion with your roof in the future, then VW will not have a get out. Ignore the recall for the tapping, then they will shify the blame back to you.

 

[Stoneybroke]

View attachment 38721

Wow, just noted the chafing on front roof reinforcement comment...
Mine's been back twice for this - keep meaning to start a thread on it...