Just announced - T6 recall for roof corrosion beneath the seal

[Jabberwocky]

I've been running a configuration this lunchtime and did notice this which seems a move in the right direction (ie at time of manufacture) at least, but only on Beach?:View attachment 38722

The configuration is down at the moment..........but if what you show is real then VW have plumbed new depths of incredulity for me!

 

[Skylark2.0]

This recall (aka product enhancement) is thethe wh theme of the thread!

Abide by the recall, they will check for some of bubbling and repair before tapping the edges, then if there are any problems with corrosion with your roof in the future, then VW will not have a get out. Ignore the recall for the tapping, then they will shify the blame back to you.

But the title is T6, ours is a T5! I checked it out after I had posted but it was too late then.

 

[Stoneybroke]

But the title is T6, ours is a T5! I checked it out after I had posted but it was too late then.

Ah, I missed that...
An admission that the T5 roof is still problematic...

 

[Volkywagen]

Fresh out of my garage this morning, I thought I’d get the top up and clean under the back of the seal. It looks like there is constantly water within the seal. The van hasn’t seen water for nearly three weeks.

 

[Borris]

Fresh out of my garage this morning, I thought I’d get the top up and clean under the back of the seal. It looks like there is constantly water within the seal. The van hasn’t seen water for nearly three weeks.

View attachment 38758

Yes and I've been told they refit the old seal after applying the foil. They then seal it with some form of sealant!
Are they going to ensure the seal is bone dry before refitting?

 

[calikev]

wonder what would happen if you left the seal off completely

 

[WelshGas]

wonder what would happen if you left the seal off completely

Water would get under and wet canvas when driving. Metal would rub on metal and wear paint away.

 

[calikev]

is that all lol

 

[iamchucky]

Sent email to VW Customer Care to find out about duration of warranty and the roof corrosion issue & the recent tape repair update. With my Cali coming up to 3 years old I was concerned that I had to get the vehicle checked before the 3 year warranty period (even though I have the 5 year warranty - thought it best to double check) From the response below it seems as though you can get it checked at any point up to 6 years from registration - but obviously it will get checked when next in the dealership.

A little confused on the tape method being covered to end of vehicle warranty (ie 3 or 5 years) and corrosion being covered for 6 years (due to extra 3 year goodwill gesture). Guessing they mean only 3 years cover f no corrosion found. I'll respond to gain clarification on this point.

Thank you for your recent contact to Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles UK.

I appreciate you have some concerns regarding roof corrosion for your Volkswagen California.

This repair is covered by each vehicle’s three-year paintwork protection warranty, to which the factory has added three years of goodwill. It is not possible to extend this goodwill beyond a vehicle’s sixth year.

If you see any signs of corrosion, we would recommend having your vehicle checked as soon as possible to ensure the repair can be organised in an efficient and timely manner. However, you can have the vehicle checked at any point for corrosion within the first 6 years of the vehicle being registered.

If corrosion is found and repaired, the repair will be covered for three years, regardless of your remaining manufacturer’s warranty period.

The tape method is a recall and would not be considered a repair so will only be covered until the end of your manufacturer’s warranty, which is 5 years in your case.

I hope this information proves useful. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us on the number below.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles UK.

 

[ArunAlec]

Water would get under and wet canvas when driving. Metal would rub on metal and wear paint away.

wonder what would happen if you left the seal off completely

I've long thought that rather than having the rubber seal fitted to the lifting roof have a simple possibly contoured rubber strip bonded to the static roof so that there was no need for any steel spring involved. In simple terms something like draft excluder.

 

[WelshGas]

I've long thought that rather than having the rubber seal fitted to the lifting roof have a simple possibly contoured rubber strip bonded to the static roof so that there was no need for any steel spring involved. In simple terms something like draft excluder.

That's possible, if it could be accurately positioned but it could still result in paint loss on the rim moving on the seal.

 

[2into1]

I'm puzzled.... If the gunk is added in an attempt to keep water out of the seal, then why is the tape needed?
Conversley, if the tape works, what is the problem having water sitting in the seal?

I'm going in for a service tomorrow and hoping they won't attempt to touch mine at the moment (June 17 so has the factory tape).

 

[Max-Felix]

That's possible, if it could be accurately positioned but it could still result in paint loss on the rim moving on the seal.

I was thinking rather like (typically) supercar owners have their new purchases fully PPF'd before properly using them then an experienced wrapper could surely wrap the roof edge for say 3" under and over around the entire perimeter with maybe a double wrap of clear bonnet/leading edge type super tough PPF? Might be a few hundred well spent on a new vehicle at least.

 

[WelshGas]

Mines, Dec 1st 2014 reg booked in for major 4 yr/80,000 mile service and the garage have confirmed this " Vehicle Enhancement " will be undertaken while it is in.

 

[Bramco]

Mines, Dec 1st 2014 reg booked in for major 4 yr/80,000 mile service and the garage have confirmed this " Vehicle Enhancement " will be undertaken while it is in

Ours is Nov 2014, just about to book the 4 year service (only 40k miles though). Ours has recently been off to Claridges to have corrosion fixed and while I thought that they hadn't bonded the seal on I've now discovered they have. So I wonder how they will fit the tape?

 

[Legin]

I will add my two penneth which I have done before but gives food for thought. Just to reiterate and also add the following mechanisms are what can give rise to blistering and corrosion.

Galvanic action in the presence of electrolyte
Osmosis through the paint
Exposed metal

Taking Galvanic this is logical as the mechanism damaging the roof because Al is anodic to steel in the galvanic series.

Next Osmosis, well the paint isnt impervious its actually effectively a membrane. I believe osmosis is what is actually causing the bubbled paint on the aluminium. This itself primarily a function of the salts in the under the paint vs that in the electrolyte creating a gradient try to equalise. What is bad for this ? permanently submerged in water but ironically rain water as opposed to salt water is worse. Thats what we have in the seal.

Exposed metal. Well this is the standard corrosion cell and not at the root of the problem else the stone chips would be a real mess but there not.

Will the VW fix work and do they make sense ?

Well yes they do make sense to me apart from the inconsistency of application which will of course be commercial liability driven.

The tape provides both galvanic isolation which we all understand I think but more importantly the coating is no longer subjected to an osmosis driver which I suspect folk dont appreciate.

Could be both mechanisms are at play here so mitigating both is belt and braces.

The zinc paint is an attempt to be more anodic vs the cathodic Al and the steel although I suspect removal of salts (the preparation) and a good etch primer would be a better area of focus. In other words it wont work imo.
Are salt tests done before painting and pull tests after ? I doubt it but they should be.

Finally the sealant is trying to keep the water out which again is very worthwhile as long as its effective.

I believe osmosis is why VW are struggling so much but its only my opinion. Im equally sure however that VW know all this.
The key then is that the paint doesnt see water so focus on the tape remains a critical step imo.

My advice to those without tape is fit it by fair means or otherwise. Sealant is more difficult to be sure its fully applied, once my cali arrives I will probably pull the seal and add sealant to the tape but not sure what at the moment.

Although not a metallurgist I have worked with corrosion all my career and alongside some of the best in the business so some of it rubbed off I guess.

All just my opinion of course without having done any testing to prove.

 

[WelshGas]

Ours is Nov 2014, just about to book the 4 year service (only 40k miles though). Ours has recently been off to Claridges to have corrosion fixed and while I thought that they hadn't bonded the seal on I've now discovered they have. So I wonder how they will fit the tape?

Interesting. Mine has No Corrosion on the Front panel or under the seal.

 

[Volkywagen]

I'm puzzled.... If the gunk is added in an attempt to keep water out of the seal, then why is the tape needed?
Conversley, if the tape works, what is the problem having water sitting in the seal?

I'm going in for a service tomorrow and hoping they won't attempt to touch mine at the moment (June 17 so has the factory tape).

They are aware that the steel in the seal corrodes so they add the tape to prevent the two touching. I think over time as corrosion occurs and the rust in the steel bands enlarges then it may possibly rub through the seal. I can see on mine that it had started to etch away at the tape ever so slightly. In 6 months I would expect it to rub through if left untreated.
It is a cheaper alternative to re designing a new non ferrous introduction into the seal for VW. After looking at all the claims on these up to now, you would have thought they would be taking it a bit more seriously.

 

[Max-Felix]

I was thinking rather like (typically) supercar owners have their new purchases fully PPF'd before properly using them then an experienced wrapper could surely wrap the roof edge for say 3" under and over around the entire perimeter with maybe a double wrap of clear bonnet/leading edge type super tough PPF? Might be a few hundred well spent on a new vehicle at least.

Quoting my own post to link in Loz's topic below - I missed this topic which covers exactly the above and others might have missed it too? Useful to have it linked here too maybe:

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/adding-the-3m-tape-to-roof-edges.24514/

 

[Bramco]

Interesting. Mine has No Corrosion on the Front panel or under the seal.

Given the date we both took delivery, I wouldn't have expected any corrosion on the front panel - this was fixed before ours were produced.

I have had it confirmed that ours is subject to the workshop order or whatever it was called. Will be interesting to meet the bodywork specialist again who assured me just before ours went in to be fixed that the issue was all these people taking the seals on and off looking fro corrosion that caused the problem.......

Spoke to a local van centre who don't handle the Cali and they said - 'oh yeah, glad we don't to be honest that's a nightmare, the roof corrosion.'

Just spent 3 days writing a late submission to the local planning committee about why they should see our planning application as limited infill in a green belt village - which obvs it is!

So really looking forward to the grind of getting a new elevating roof from VW because they f***ed up the repair by bonding the seal onto the roof so they couldn't apply the manufacturing fix that has been in place for a couple of years - will be interesting.

Maybe we need to expand the survey to ask if folks have had a new roof from VWCS yet?

 

[leightonjthomas]

Given the date we both took delivery, I wouldn't have expected any corrosion on the front panel - this was fixed before ours were produced.

I have had it confirmed that ours is subject to the workshop order or whatever it was called. Will be interesting to meet the bodywork specialist again who assured me just before ours went in to be fixed that the issue was all these people taking the seals on and off looking fro corrosion that caused the problem.......

Spoke to a local van centre who don't handle the Cali and they said - 'oh yeah, glad we don't to be honest that's a nightmare, the roof corrosion.'

Just spent 3 days writing a late submission to the local planning committee about why they should see our planning application as limited infill in a green belt village - which obvs it is!

So really looking forward to the grind of getting a new elevating roof from VW because they f***ed up the repair by bonding the seal onto the roof so they couldn't apply the manufacturing fix that has been in place for a couple of years - will be interesting.

Maybe we need to expand the survey to ask if folks have had a new roof from VWCS yet?

Regrettably there is no guarantee that the front roof panel has been permanently fixed. Mine is May 15 and had to go in last year for the cap fix after corrosion was confirmed on the front panel. The bubbling under the seal was fixed at the same time but took two attempts to get right. As they didn’t apply any tape or bond the seal it will be interesting to see if it will still be subject to a recall.

 

[sbmcd]

Ours is Nov 2014, just about to book the 4 year service (only 40k miles though). Ours has recently been off to Claridges to have corrosion fixed and while I thought that they hadn't bonded the seal on I've now discovered they have. So I wonder how they will fit the tape?

Been on holiday for a long time so just catching up on this T6 development.

I also have a bonded seal after my warranty repair on my T5, I do not think VW will do anything more unless the roof shows any sign of corrosion out with the seal within the 3 year repair warranty period.

 

[Volkywagen]

Maybe this is why Vw are bonding these up now do that we can’t take the seals off and see the rot. We have to wait for the roof to corrode away well past any honourable warranty period I suspect

 

[sbmcd]

Maybe this is why Vw are bonding these up now do that we can’t take the seals off and see the rot. We have to wait for the roof to corrode away well past any honourable warranty period I suspect

I suspect so, however there may be some merit in bonding the seal providing the bonding solution also prevents water sitting in the seal. Interesting to note VW are now adding the tape and sealing the top edge to prevent the ingress.

fyi I had a new seal fitted when my roof was done.

 

[Volkywagen]

D

I suspect so, however there may be some merit in bonding the seal providing the bonding solution also prevents water sitting in the seal. Interesting to note VW are now adding the tape and sealing the top edge to prevent the ingress.

fyi I had a new seal fitted when my roof was done.

do you have any pictures of the seal bonding work carried out?